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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-12-02 ENR Minutes ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATURAL RESOURCE COMMISSION MINUTES Tuesday, December 2,2008,5:15 p.m. Council Chambers - Maplewood City Hall 1830 County Road BEast 1. CALL TO ORDER (5:15 p.m.) 2. ROLL CALL Commissioners Present: Commissioner Judith Johannessen Commissioner Carole Lynne Commissioner Frederica Musgrave Commissioner Carol Mason Sherrill Commissioner Dale Trippler Chair Ginny Yingling Absent: Commissioner Bill Schreiner Staff Present: Shann Finwall, Environmental Planner Steve Kummer, Engineer 3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Commissioner Trippler moved to approve the agenda, seconded by Commissioner Musgrave, all ayes. 4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS Environmental Ordinance (Slopes and Mississippi River Corridor Critical Area) Planner Finwall prepared a draft ordinance in response to discussion at the November 6 meeting which was included in the packets. Engineer Kummer answered questions regarding issues raised at the Nov 6 meeting. Engineer Kummer said he had spoken with a representative of the DN R who was unable to give him specifics regarding the origins of the 40 foot setback requirement. He researched other cities websites and in general found that the use of a 40 foot setback is common. He believes the reason is to ensure that development is as far back as possible from a slope or from the top of a bluff so that the weight of any structure built there does not bear upon the slope. 1 Upon further questioning by commissioners regarding whether a 40 foot setback was a sufficient distance, Engineer Kummer said that he thought it was prudent from a structural standpoint. Another area of concern that he mentioned is the removal of vegetation within the 40 foot buffer. Planner Finwall called the commission's attention to a handout they were given about the St. Croix Scenic Wildlife Overlay District in which the 40 foot minimum is cited for urban areas and she speculated that this may be where the number came from. Commissioner Trippler asked if the city requires soil borings close to slopes in proposed developments to verify soil stability. Engineer Kummer confirmed this saying that a professional geotechnical study would be required to confirm that the development would not compromise the slope. Commissioner Musgrave asked if Engineer Kummer was aware of any studies that had been done regarding the impact of housing density upon slopes. Engineer Kummer said he was not aware of any and suggested researching other urban areas similar to Minnesota. Chair Yingling asked if commissioners wanted to consider a graduated approach to setbacks in order to acknowledge that some areas need more protection than others. Commissioner Mason Sherrill stated that the 40 foot setback might not be acceptable in areas where water and streams cause erosion or in areas with a greater grade. Engineer Kummer said that the steepness of the slope was more important than what is at the bottom of it. Planner Finwall informed the commission that their printed materials incorrectly stated there are 27 acres of slopes in Maplewood. The actual number is 270 acres of slope within the 11.695 total acres that make UP the entire City of Maplewood. Engineer Kummer noted that approx 2.1 % of the entire area of the city have grades exceeding 18% which is the benchmark for a "steep slope" as determined by the State Soil and Conservation Service. He said that the majority of those slopes are in the southern-most one-square mile of the city. Planner Finwall clarified that the current ordinance restricts new development if it is within 40 feet of a bluff line, which is defined as a slope with a grade of 18% or more that drains into protected waters, such as the Mississippi River. Commissioner Musgrave moved that a separate section of the Slope ordinance be created to deal specifically with the Mississippi Critical Area and the Fish Creek Area, seconded by Chair Yingling. Ayes all. 2 Planner Finwall stated that the Mississippi River Critical Area could have its own section in the slope ordinance. Commissioner Trippler expressed concern that the definition of bluff line was based on the existing shoreland district ordinance. He was uncomfortable with all of the references to water since this seemed to exclude slopes that are not adjacent to water. Planner Finwall noted that the DN R is in the process of redrafting their definitions regarding shorelands and this would require the city to do likewise. She said she would try to get more information on what the DNR is planning. Chair Yingling expressed concern about the use of 18% in relation to slope grade. Engineer Kummer said that it is the number used when soil surveys are done. He also stated that a "significant slope" standard in city construction projects is 25% or more and that greater slopes (i.e., 3:1) increase concerns about erosion. He said that the 25% number is appropriate. Commissioner Musgrave expressed concern that the 25% may be appropriate for construction but may not be appropriate when taking other things into consideration such as protection of habitat, etc. Chair Yingling suggested that they just mull-over the 40 foot setback issue until the next meeting and move on to the next question. Engineer Kummer said he could find nothing to justify exempting earth-sheltered structures in the ordinance since their impact upon a slope should be similar to a traditional above-ground structure. Engineer Kummer discussed the proposed ordinance regarding soil erosion. He read from state statute which states that each city is responsible for adopting a soil loss ordinance based on the US Soil Conservation Service Field Office Technical Guide. Based on this, Maplewood's soil losses should not exceed 4 to 5 tons per acre per year for non-vegetative soils. Commissioner Trippler expressed concern that the numbers primarily related to farm erosion and may be on the high side. A discussion ensued regarding the difficulties of measurement and thus enforcement. Engineer Kummer said he believes the city aggressively enforces erosion control at construction sites by using qualitative measurements such as whether silt fences are in place. Planner Finwall said that the language was placed in city ordinances because the state required it. She also pointed out that the city must enforce the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency's construction storm water permit requirements and that should be referred to in the future ordinance. 3 At the conclusion of the discussion, Chair Yingling asked the commission to review the items discussed and be ready to talk about ways to resolve these issues at the next meeting. Plus they also need to think about creating the separate section in the ordinance regarding the Mississippi Critical area and the Fish Creek Corridor. 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Meeting Times - Commissioner Musgrave asked if meetings could be moved to 7:00 p.m. or some other day because 5:15 p.m. was difficult with her work schedule. Chair Yingling asked staff to see if there were any other times available for meeting and report back next month. 7. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS a. Ron Cockriel, 943 Century Avenue North, Maplewood, MN. Mr. Cockriel stated he did not hear anything about the 40-foot setback at the last meeting. It is simply a viewshed setback requirement. He discussed the difference between a 17 and 25 percent slope and retaining walls. The ordinance is about retrofitting a National Park into our city. He wants to get the commissioners outside the development and planners office to show what the intent is. b. Elizabeth Sletten, 2747 N. Clarence St., Maplewood, MN. Are there plans for a bus tour around they city of Maplewood? She would like any updates on when they are planning on doing one. 8. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS Chair Yingling reviewed a workshop that was held in November regarding setting priorities and goals for 2009. Three goals were set from the meeting including storm water as it relates to parking lots and other impervious surfaces, waste hauling, and greenway corridors. Chair Yingling said that she had met with Bill Schreiner regarding storm water runoff. They want to set up a meeting with staff to discuss storm water issues that have already been identified and determine how the commission should tackle those issues. They also talked about the use of pervious paving blocks in parking lots and the need to discuss this with city engineers and planning commission. Commissioner Lynne talked about waste hauling and said they want to do research so that they can determine the best solution for the citizens and get the most cost effective waste hauling and recycling. Commissioner Mason Sherrill talked about greenways and said that they plan to do fact-finding regarding the corridors in January. Commissioner Musgrave raised a question regarding open meeting laws and her concern that the subcommittees do not encourage or allow participation by the public. 4 Chair Yingling explained that the purpose of the subcommittees was to research ideas and not to formulate policy. She also felt that this allowed more work to be done thus making it possible for the commission to have the time to talk about the bigger issues. Commissioner Musgrave asked that the City Attorney rule on the legality of the subcommittees. She also asked for more documentation of meetings with staff so that citizens could be kept informed. Commissioner Mason Sherrill said that as a volunteer commission member she found the information being asked for by Commissioner Musgrave was intrusive and accusatory and that she was not comfortable with the suggestion that what was being done was subversive. 9. STAFF PRESENTATIONS a) December 11, 2008, (6:30 to 8:30 p.m. at the Maplewood Community Center) University of Minnesota Environmental Policy Capstone Project - Final Presentation on Sustainable Maplewood b) December 9, 2008, Friends of Maplewood Nature Board Meeting (6:30 p.m. at the Nature Center) c) Nature Center Programs are listed on the City's website. d) The next Environmental Commission meeting is scheduled for Jan 6th at 5:15 p.m. The south Maplewood stop gap ordinance will be reviewed during this meeting. 10. MEETING ADJOURNED (6:55 p.m.) 5