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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-11-19 Parks Minutes CITYOF MAPLEWOOD PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:30 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBERS - MAPLEWOOD CITY HALL 1830 COUNTY ROAD BEAST CALL TO ORDER 1. ROLL CALL Present Commissioner Julie Binko Commissioner Craig Brannon Commissioner Peter Fischer Commissioner Carolyn Peterson Commissioner Bruce Roman Commissioner Kim Schmidt Commissioner Therese Sonnek Absent Commissioner Don Christianson Staff DuWayne Konewko Steve Kummer Doug Taubman 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Additions: o A request was made to discuss the position of the Park Commission regarding the Smoke Task Force. o Commissioner Peterson requested that the commission review the Open Space portion of the Comprehensive Plan. o Commissioner Peterson commented on conservation easements. She asked if the people who voted for the open space referendum intended that these open spaces be preserves. Commissioner Binko made a motion to approve the agenda as modified, seconded by Commissioner Roman, all ayes. 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES September 17Minutes o Bruce Roman requested that on the last page, we add his comment on the lack of wildlife at one of the dog parks at Otter Lake. o Kim Schmidt clarified that her comment on the physical condition of the dog parks was regarding the parks, not the dirtiness of the dogs. 1 o Commissioner Binko asked for clarification on Lion's Park item seven. Her comment on what park was usable was not reflective of what she said. o Commissioner Peterson requested that the discussion about conservation easements, at the top of the next page after the heading, should reflect she was taking about the voters. o Commissioner Peterson requested the following additions be made to the section on conservation easements, paragraph stating: "Commissioners commented on various concerns including lack of future open space opportunities, money issues, and there being few undeveloped parcels left in the city": o reflect that she believes there is almost no undeveloped land of size left except Carver crossing in South Maplewood. o reflect that she indicated that the community paid for the open space bonding referendum and people were always asking if this land would be protected forever. The intent of the referendum was that the sites be protected forever. o Commissioner Peterson requested that the minutes be changed to reflect her comment that it was the voters intention to preserve the Priory forever. (Add to conservation easement section, after paragraph: "Commissioner Fischer asked if we think the city will be able to maintain the property or if we think we need to pay an outside group to force the city to make sure the sites are maintained in a proper way. He does not know what it is going to be like 20 years from now. Is this the best use of the money we have right now?") o Commissioner Peterson considers the following statement by Ms. Gaynor in the conservation easement section very important and asks that it be emphasized in the minutes: "If the commission wants to ensure these sites are never developed, conservation easement is the tool to do that." o Commissioner Fischer indicated a comment he made on conservation easements is missing. Commissioner Schmidt motioned to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by Commissioner Peterson, all ayes. October 15 Minutes o Commissioner Schmidt requested that under Lake Links Trail page 2, we add language 'for pedestrian crossing' add 'further explore the flashing lights.' o A commissioner noticed that under section seven on the page above Dog Park, there are two votes on that page without names of who voted. o Commissioner Peterson noted that under Diversity, there was a comment regarding community gardens. Change language to read as 'using a section of Prairie Farm Preserve' instead of Bruentrup Farm. Motion to approve as amended by Commissioner Roman and seconded by Commissioner Binko, all ayes. 4. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS Ron Cockriel stated that the Constitutional amendment was recently approved and he hopes the City of Maplewood will put a plan together to access that money. He is hoping through this commission and staff that we can have a brainstorming session so something can be written into the Comprehensive Plan saying we ultimately should connect to those dollars. If we do not put a plan together to gain that money all the other communities will gain access to those funds. 2 5. PUBLIC COMMENTS - LAKE LINKS TRAIL PROPOSED ALIGNMENT/MCKNIGHT TO BELLAIRE Staff Report DuWayne Konewko introduced Chad Larson and Luke Payne from Kimley-Horn, who are here to revisit the discussion about alignment options. Staff went through some concerns they have heard regarding the placement and the selection of the Lydia alignment: o Preference for the County Road D alignment. o Preference for the power line easement. o Concerns about loss of trees in boulevard. o Safety concerns regarding traffic and foot traffic. o Loss of property values. o Lack of use of trail. o Increase in crime. o Concerns about existing sprinkler systems. o Concern about increase of traffic on Lydia over the last couple of years due to construction on Hwy 36 and most recently Beam Avenue. DuWayne Konewko will make sure these concerns will be part of the public record. He introduced Mr. Payne from Kimley-Horn who will go through the background information and provide an update on some concerns expressed by the Park Commission, including the safety features at the McKnight crossing. Mr. Payne from Kimley-Horn & Associates presented findings on the Lake Links Trail from the October 15 meeting. He discussed the segment that has not been constructed that connects the trail from McKnight Avenue to the trail segment being constructed as part of the Joy Park improvements. At the October 15 meeting, the commission recommended an alignment along the east side of McKnight Road to Lydia Avenue. As part of this investigation they looked at alignments along County Road D, the power-line easement and the preferred alignment along Lydia. Mr. Payne showed the commission an exhibit that illustrates the alignment recommended by the commission. It starts at the existing Lake Links Trail on the western right- of-way of McKnight, crosses McKnight on the south side of Gall Avenue, extends southward within the eastern right-of-way of McKnight, crosses Lydia, and from the intersection of McKnight and Lydia extends east in the south right-of-way of Lydia to where it connects to the trail currently being constructed as part of the Joy Park improvements. The commission expressed concern with a couple of issues associated with this trail: 1. Safety concerns regarding the Lake Links crossing of McKnight Proposed implementations: a) The trail will cross directly adjacent to the south right-of-way line of Gall Avenue. It aligns itself with Gall and will be an area where motorists have enhanced attention due to turning vehicles and pedestrians. b) Utilize Dura-Therm, a thermoplastic material embedded into the asphalt, which reduces concerns with snow plows and will bring attention to the cross walk at night because it reflects headlights. c) Utilize LED-lit pedestrian crossing warning lights to alert motorists. d) Install additional street lights at that crossing. 2. There was a question about what the appropriate material would be to restore the boulevard at the segment of trail that abuts Lydia Avenue. a) A full 12 foot wide asphalt trail. b) Utilize a 2-foot wide concrete paver boulevard. c) Utilize wide rock/mulch boulevard. 3 Questions and Comments from Commission: o Commissioner Binko asked it they can put a stop sign on Gall. She is concerned about pedestrian and bike traffic. She feels a stop sign on Gall and on McKnight would be prudent. Response: The problem with placing a stop sign there is the close proximity with the County Road D intersection. He said they can look into it but it may cause circulation problems around County Road D. o Commissioner Binko asked about the possibility of having a split path on Lydia with the median being grass. Response: This was considered, however due to the limited space this is the most efficient way that we can provide the full trail width per standard. If two feet were placed, in the middle we would eliminate the opportunity to add mailboxes and signs and there are some safety concerns with having pedestrian traffic right on the curb. o Commissioner Peterson asked about the width of the trail that goes through the Prairie Farm Preserve, she remembers it being more likely 8 feet Response: The trail would be 10 feet, but 8 feet can be put on the table if the commission feels it is warranted. o Commissioner Sonnek asked about the width of the trail off Lydia. If it were 8 feet would you then consider a grass boulevard edge? Response: Yes, it would be the preferred option. o Commissioner Brannon said the problem he sees with an 8-foot trail is there isn't enough room for walkers and bikers. o Commissioner Sonnek asked if we have any anticipation of use for this trail versus the state trail. Do we have standards for use and width? Response: We do have standards for uses and widths. For a shared use path the generally accepted standard is a minimum of 10 feet wide. If it is a trail that receives less use there are situations where 8-foot trails are acceptable. At this time this is not projected to be a high use trail. o Commissioner Peterson asked if Mr. Taubman knows the width of the trails on the open spaces. Response: No, he does not know. o Commissioner Fischer asked whether there is an option for the trail along Lydia being 10 feet from the curb and adding two more feet of grass on the one strip to give more width to the trail. Response: The concern with this is sign and mailbox placement. Public Comments and Questions: o Bob Ohs, 2995 Mary Street asked if it there is an 8-foot trail along Lydia, who is going to maintain a two foot strip of grass and would grass grow on that with all the plowing and salt that would occur. Where will the mailboxes be relocated? He has seen traffic on Lydia at high speeds and has seen the traffic increase. He suspects that there is a safety issue with bikers young and old with this amount of traffic and speed. Why pay money to tear up a sidewalk that we have already paid for and is in good condition when we can go a different 4 route. There is a lot of money involved and black top tends to undergo a lot of wear. He would prefer they go a different route with less traffic that would not involve tearing up an existing sidewalk. . Phil Tandiocean, on behalf of his parents who reside at 2995 Bartelmy Lane, asked how you can plan a trail without planning the whole thing out before you start building a trail. One section of the trail is too close to a cemetery. It might be better to find an alternative place to locate the trail through a nature area. The County Road D and power line issue was looked at but we have yet to hear the results. Lydia is not safe due to traffic. He suggested putting in an additional trail instead of replacing one that is already there. Fewer homeowners are affected on the County Road D option. Commissioner Binko asked if we could go over the other two plans. Staff agreed and proceeded to over the two plans: . Option B utilizes the power line easement. We would still have a mid-block crossing at McKnight so the concerns regarding the safety at that trail crossing would still be in play. We then follow the powerline easement east to a point on Bellaire and extend down the west side of Bellaire to where we would intersect with the extension from Joy Park. Some of the concerns along this alignment are acquisition since the city does not currently own that property. It is encumbered by overhead power and multiple gas lines; there are wetland concerns; trees and topographical issues to be navigated; and cost issues. The amount for acquisition will be substantially higher. Option B would cost approximately $279,000 for trail improvements and $350,000 for acquisition. Option A would come to a total cost of $238,000 trail improvements and any acquisition costs. . Option C follows County Road D. There would be a mid-block crossing would be at Gall Avenue and the trail would go up the west side of McKnight. This poses some challenges due to existing infrastructure along McKnight. The cheaper and more readily available option would be to use the east right-of-way. We would then follow the north side of County Road D where it becomes Bellaire and extends south connecting with the trail under construction as part of the Joy Park improvements. County Road D is a rural section without a curb or gutter. In order to implement this option it would best be facilitated along with a street reconstruction project where curb and gutter are being added. This is the longest route so this explains why it has the highest construction cost. The construction cost would be $316,000; easements $5000. There is a timeline; it would not begin until 2013, as this is the date for slated road construction. . Mr. Ohs: The existing sidewalk is still a usable bike path for the residents in the area and it could connect to a trail. . Yuri Mcintyre, 3037 Standridge Place: Several of us back up to McKnight. Currently we have a buffer of brush and trees. We feel that if you take a 12-foot right-of-way through there, this would eliminate most of the buffer we have. Traffic noise would then be a problem. Safety issues on Lydia would be a concern. He is concerned about the increase in crime having a path running along the backyards. Have we explored going on the west side of McKnight? We see County Road D as a better option. Staff response: South of Woodlynn there are significant grading issues that would prove a challenge. 5 . Gregory Hine, 3017 Standridge Place: We have the only driveway that backs up on that stretch, He is concerned about the safety issues for his family and bikers. They are concerned they would lose their turn-a-round. . Dale Rudy 3025 Standridge Place: Implores the commission and staff to look at another alignment. He can see the importance of trails but people race from Lydia to Gall on McKnight so there is a real safety concern. The park area gets a high use by youth groups. Parked cars filled up both sides of Lydia, causing safety issues. He is also concerned about an increase of crime and a loss of privacy. He does not want to lose a 100-200 year-old Oak. He prefers County Road D option. They are afraid of losing privacy. . Janet Mercer, 3029 Standridge Place: She echoes everything said tonight. Regarding the10 foot right-of-way, how much land use is being proposed along the McKnight section? There are holding ponds and a portion is on her land, is there anything in the budget for a barrier system in case someone wanders off the trail into their yard. They are concerned that people would park on McKnight using the trail which could cause safety issues. Response: There is no permit acquisition along McKnight and Lydia. There may be some temporary easement required along the steep hill off McKnight. Staff has not gotten into the design yet regarding a barrier. If there are issues associated with that then that would be addressed. . Sherry and Dave Orlando, 3009 Standridge Place: They feel there are topographical challenges on both the east and west side of McKnight. Increased foot and bike traffic on Lydia would be unsafe. They are concerned about an increase in litter on their corner. Is there a critical need to have this finished? Can the traffic pattern be changed on McKnight, possibly to a single lane with a center turn lane, designating part of the road as a bike path? Response: In 1999, there were a number of cities involved with the Lakes Link Trail development. This was thought of as a regional trail, adopted by a resolution in 2001 by cities. It was always envisioned as an off-road path but they can look at it from the perspective brought up by Mr. Orlando. . Commissioner Binko asked for the number of houses impacted for this option. Response: 14-15 homes are impacted on McKnight/Lydia; 12-13 homes are impacted on the Bellaire side with a few more north on McKnight. . Ron Cockriel, 943 Century Avenue: When these trails are put through communities crime rate doesn't go up; crime goes down because neighbors are out walking and deter crime. Take the mailboxes and move them back to the south side of County Road D. Let's not take away assets that improve our community such as in the Lydia corridor. There are a lot of challenges and a lot of great opportunities that go along with it. Additiona/ Questions from the Commission: . Commissioner Sonnek asked if staff has an idea of the cost or the possibility of adding 5 feet of concrete instead of ripping it out and adding 10 feet of asphalt. Staff response: It would be possible but not recommended as you run into settlement issues with the cracks in the center of the trail. . Commissioner Fischer: We have sidewalks on both sides. Is there a way to take a look at having traffic going one way and traffic going another and not having to build additional sidewalk or trail space? 6 Staff Response: It is not a realistic possibility based on the users of the trails. . Commissioner Sonnek asked what would happen on the west side of McKnight if we went to County Road D. Nobody is happy with the crossing at Gall, how would you get a crossing at County Road D? Staff Response: It is not impossible. . Commissioner Fischer commented that going on the west side of McKnight to County Road D, puts the trail on some homeowners front doorsteps, which would be a major concern. . Commissioner Brannon asked what the timing is for funds. Staff Response: The County Road D project is proposed to be completed in 2013 in our CI P. We have monies allocated for trails in 2010. . Commissioner Peterson: What is the timeline for the trail along County Road D? Staff Response: That will start in the spring of 2010. . Commissioner Schmidt questioned whether we can use the constitutional amendment funds for completing the Lake Links Trail. She is not sure if that would the best way to spend the funds. Staff response: The City's first meeting with the state is the first week of December. We will express some thought on some projects we would like to see occur in Maplewood. . Commissioner Binko asked what the likelihood is of getting the County Road D CIP being moved up one year. Staff response: The Park Commission could make a recommendation to move up the funding to 2012 or 2011 to align itself with some of the enhancements that are going to take place at the mall corridor. . Commissioner Binko made a motion to move the CI P for County Road D to 2010-2011 to be in line more appropriately with the Lake Links Trail Improvement from South lawn Drive to Ariel Street. Staff response: First, we need to send out a mailer to include those residents on County Road D and Bellaire. . Commissioner Fischer stated that they would like to direct staff to start planning for the possibility of going this route but would also like to put out a notice to the people in the rest of the area saying we are looking at options for going through that area and invite them to go through the same process that we have done here. Staff response: The Commission can direct staff to look at that County Road D alignment, let us do some additional work on it, and bring it back to the Park Commission. Maybe next spring the city can send another notification to those residents in the other areas. . Commissioner Fischer asked for a clarification of the motion. The motion has been amended to direct staff to look at the County Road D alignment and then come back for another hearing in February for the other people in that area with the goal to be more in line with the Lake Links segment from South lawn Drive to Ariel Street. Motion made by Commissioner Binko and seconded by Commissioner Roman, seven ayes and one nay by Commissioner Fischer. Staff will bring this back to the commission in January with a public hearing in February. 7 6. LAKE LINKS TRAIL IMPROVEMENTS - SOUTHLAWN DRIVE TO ARIEL STREET DuWayne Konewko explained that Chad Larson from Kimley-Horn will go through a couple different scenarios for the proposed trail through the Maplewood Mall area. Staff is requesting recommendation on trail alignment options. Chad Larson gave the commissioners background information on this project. He mentioned two trail alignment options: . County Road D alignment is the most direct route. It connects the two sections of trail, results in the least amount of trail constructed and has the lowest cost. The drawback to this alignment is the high amount of traffic. In addition, there is no access to the mall with this trail alignment. . The mall trail alignment would provide direct pedestrian access to the mall. In addition, it would get trail traffic away from the County Road D corridor. The drawback of this alignment is the right of way easements and this would be a longer trail. Questions and Comments from the Commissioners: . Commissioner Binko asked if there is a reason why instead of going down Woodlynn to Ariel you go up one or the other side of White Bear Avenue and then across and hook up with the trail. Staff response: That would be a possibility. As part of the White Bear Avenue project we are proposing to construct concrete sidewalks on both sides of White Bear Avenue. . Commissioner Brannon stated that the trail would cross a lot of driveways and entrances to businesses. These are both off-street options being separated from traffic. Staff response: Yes, you would be separated but would have some of the same traffic concerns such as entrances to commercial driveways. . Commissioner Sonnek asked if we went with the option on County Road D whether we could have a spur trail to the mall. Staff Response: To put a trail to the mall entrance we would need to coordinate with Maplewood Mall. . Commissioner Peterson commented that the plan that goes around the mall would be dangerous for biking due to the traffic patterns. Staff Response: Yes, there would be concerns with the traffic and safety if a trail goes over that ring road. . Commissioner Sonnek asked what the plans are for the County Road D and White Bear Avenue crossing. How could we make it better for bike and pedestrian traffic to cross there? Staff Response: That is a concern with the County Road D alignment. There will be many lanes of traffic to cross. The Woodlynn intersection would have less traffic and provide a safer crossing for White Bear Avenue . Commissioner Peterson feels the Woodlynn is the most direct entrance into the Mall. She likes the County Road D option because you are going straight and staying on that trail. 8 . Commissioner Roman questioned the County Road D option since there is a lot of traffic at the entrance and exit to the mall. If you are gong to have a 1 O-foot trail there, won't the trail and car traffic interfere with one another crossing the intersection? Staff Response: On the map the white symbols indicate proposed traffic signals. . Commissioner Binko asked whether there could be fewer accesses with semi-fours and we could use the bike path as a median. Bikers could then stop while cars make their left-hand turn. Staff Response: As part of the County Road D reconstruction there will be a concrete median in this area that will prohibit left turns into these businesses. Left turn movements will be directed to traffic signals that have left turns on them. . Commissioner Schmidt stated that she does not know which option she prefers. She sees challenges to both. . Commissioner Sonnek asked who has the right of way on a driveway - the driver leaving a driveway or the biker on the trail. Would a trail crossing sign be at every exit? . Commissioner Fischer stated that County Road D is a very busy intersection but he thinks it will be easier to have the trail there because there is only one major intersection to worry about. If you try to come through Woodlynn there will be a couple of areas without a stop sign and there are more driveways. . One of the commissioners asked how many entrances are there onto the ring around the mall. Staff Response: Staff will have to get back to the commission on that. We need to take this back to the drawing table. . A commissioner asked whether we can we get a more detailed map of the crossing at County Road D and White Bear. . Commissioner Fischer asked the commission if they have more questions and need more details before making a recommendation and he asked staff if they have enough information from the commission. . Staff stated they can provide the information to the commission in January. 7. LION'S PARK UPDA TE Staff stated that they have developed a couple of preliminary concept plans for Lion's Park. We took the existing park amenities and incorporated them into a plan and will show the Commission how the stormwater piece could be incorporated into the design. We came up with two different concepts: a) Traditional park theme, geared more towards active people who like to play ball. This includes a ball field, basketball court, and stormwater holding pond. b) Different grouping of play elements. There would be no basketball court and the ball field would be geared towards younger youth. There is a tot lot and rain gardens. Staff is looking for a recommendation to move forward, sending surveys out to residents to get an idea of what the neighborhood would like to see from this park. 9 Questions and Comments From Commissioners: . Commissioner Binko asked how concept A deals with stormwater flow down Farrell and into the southwest area. Staff response: A pipe storm water system would have to be put in place. This would involve long-term maintenance and there would be many rules governing such a system. . Commissioner Brannon asked if the soils are conducive to the basketball court. Staff said its possible there is not a gravel base under the basketball court. It may not have been designed for the bad soils underneath. . Commissioner Peterson commented we have had problems in the past with basketball courts. It wouldn't take up as much room in that area if we took out one basket and left with just one for shooting. Will the rain garden plan handle the water problem? She said it seems like it would be safer than the holding pond. . Commissioner Sonnek said it is important to keep in mind that we are losing 6 acres at Gethsemane and the nature center is nearby. She is concerned about having enough open play area for kids. She would like to see this as much of an active play area as possible. Also, would a hockey rink be possible? Staff response: A hockey rink in this area would depend on the need. . Commissioner Roman stated that every time he goes by this park the only area consistently used is the basketball court so he feels the basketball court would be very important. . Commissioner Peterson stated that she hears from people who prefer picnic shelters. . Commissioner Binko made a motion that we recommend that we move forward with the park redevelopment planning process, seconded by Commissioner Schmidt, all ayes. . Commissioner Fischer proposed that the agenda be changed moving the Joy Park Update forward and tabling all remaining items until next meeting. 10. JOY PARK UPDA TE - BOA T LAUNCH, PARKING STALLS . Staff pointed out where the boat vehicle parking was in the original master plan. The stalls have been moved. There were six stalls. Staff felt it was important to add 4 stalls plus a handicap stall. This is also a means to access Silver Lake in the winter as well. There will be signs for parking. . Commissioner Fischer stated some of the neighbor concerns about activity at the park. He introduced a resident who has some concerns. . Dave Johnson 2587 Lydia: In 2003, the City and the consulting group spent $40,000 putting together the master plan. One of the biggest problems the neighborhood had with developing this master plan was cleaning up the crime that was going on in the area. With additional parking stalls the biggest problem we see is individuals have a parking spot to go back and forth trolling (looking). We spent a lot of money in designing this plan and he has a hard time with the four parking spots. We need to find a way to stop these individuals from committing these crimes. 10 . Staff commented that the city is investing a lot of resources in this area and we want to make it available to residents. We will do whatever we can do as a city and talk to the chief to see if we can get more aggressive search patrols. He feels those stalls are very important for people to have access. Staff will continue to work with Mr. Johnson. . Commissioner Sonnek commented that as someone who uses the park she is happy to have the additional stalls. She said the more visitors that come, the better off it will be at chasing away the people who are using the park illegally. . Commissioner Binko suggested lighting the park. . Commissioner Sonnek commented that in another park there are signs in the park saying if you are caught doing something illegally in the park your picture will be posted on the city's website. . Commissioner Fischer said most of this activity is happening in daylight. During the boating months we could make those stalls short term parking. When the other parking lot closes and they chain it closed, then people can use those spots. . Commissioner Schmidt said if there is a webcam out there then you could see license plate numbers in real time. . Commissioner Binko made a motion that by January staff will have a conversation with the appropriate people within the City of Maplewood and come up with some action plans to beef up security at Joy Park, seconded by Commissioner Peterson, all ayes. 17. ADJOURN - 10:03 p.m. NEXT MEETING DECEMBER 17, 2008 11