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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/19/2001MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION Monday, November 19, 2001, 7:00 PM City Hall Council Chambers 1830 County Road B East 1. Call to Order 2. Roll Call 3. Approval of Agenda 4. Approval of Minutes a. October 15, 2001 5. Unfinished Business None 6. New Business a. Saint Paul Regional Water Services McCarrons Plant Conditional Use Permit Revision (1900 Rice Street, south of Roselawn Avenue) b. ISTS (Individual Sewage Treatment Systems) (1) Code Amendment (2) Water Resources Management Plan c. Resolution of Appreciation - Jack Frost 7. Visitor Presentations 8. Commission Presentations a. October 22 Council Meeting: Mr. Ahlness b. November 13 (Tuesday) Council Meeting: Mr. Tdppler c. November 26 Council Meeting: ?? d. December 10 Council Meeting: ?? (was to be Mr. Mueller) 9. Staff Presentations 10. Adjoumment MINUTES OF THE MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION 1830 COUNTY ROAD B EAST, MAPLEWOOD, MINNESOTA MONDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2001 I. CALLTO ORDER Chairperson Fischer called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. I1. ROLL CALL Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Eric Ahlness Present Mary Dierich Present Lorraine Fischer Present Jack Frost Present Matt Ledvina Absent Paul Mueller Absent Gary Pearson Present William Rossbach Present Dale Trippler Present Staff Present: Ken Roberts, Associate Planner Recording Secretary: Lisa Kroll III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Commissioner Pearson moved approval of the agenda. Commissioner Dierich seconded. Ayes- Ahlness, Dierich, Fischer, Frost, Pearson, Rossbach, Trippler IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Approval of the minutes for October 15, 2001. Chairperson Fischer requested a change of verbiage on page 3 of the minutes in the 6th paragraph to read Chairperson Fischer asked the applicant to come forward and address the commission. Commissioner Dierich also requested a change of verbiage on page 6 in the last paragraph to read Chairperson Fischer asked the applicant to come forward and address the commission. Another change is on page 7, in the first paragraph, second sentence, it should read Kevin Finley, the Director of Administration and Golf Operations for the Ramsey County Parks and Recreation Department addressed the commission. Commissioner Frost moved to approve the minutes for October 15, 2001, with the changes as noted. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -2- Commissioner Pearson seconded. Ayes- Dierich, Fischer, Frost, Pearson, Rossbach, Trippler Abstention- Ahlness V. UNFINISHED BUSINESS None VI. NEW BUSINESS a. Saint Paul Regional Water Services McCarrons Plant Conditional Use Permit Revision (1900 Rice Street North, South of Roselawn Avenue) Mr. Roberts said the Saint Paul Water Utility is proposing to make the following changes to their original plant building. Build a 250-square-foot entrance vestibule. This vestibule would be above a below-grade maintenance shop also proposed in the applicant's planned improvements. This vestibule would be on the west side of the building. 2. Add a new facade on the west elevation. The primary material would be stucco. Refer to the elevations. 3. Provide four handicap-parking spaces in an existing parking lot. 4. Add landscaping to the site, primarily along the west side of the main building. The applicant is requesting: Approval of a conditional use permit (CUP) revision for the proposed addition and changes to the facility. City code requires a CUP for public utilities, public services or public buildings in the city. This request is to revise an existing CUP since the council previously approved a conditional use permit for the applicant. The proposed changes would be a revision to the site plan covered by the CUP. 2. Approval of project plans. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if they knew why the applicant was not present? Mr. Roberts said he had not heard that the applicant would not be present but it was possible that the applicant called Mr. Ekstrand and left a message for him. The letter that was sent to the applicant was sent from Mr. Ekstrand who was out of the office today and Mr. Roberts had not heard anything from the applicant directly. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if they suggest commission members table this item until the applicant was present? Planning Commission -3- Minutes of 11-19-01 Mr. Roberts said staffwould prefer not to table the item and the presentation was pretty routine and staff would like to keep the item moving forward. Chairperson Fischer asked what the preference was of the commission members? Commissioner Rossbach said he would agree with staffthat it seems straightforward. He said he would not have any questions for the applicant if they were present. Commissioner Frost concurred with Commissioner Rossbach. Commissioner Rossbach moved to adopt the resolution on pages 12-13 of the staff report. This resolution approves a conditional use permit revision to expand the Saint Paul Water Utility's Plant Building at 1900 Rice Street North. The city bases this approval on the findings required by the code and is subject to the following conditions: 1. All construction shall follow the approved site plan. The director of community development may approve minor changes. 2. The proposed construction must be substantially started within one year of council approval or the permit shall become null and void. The city council shall review this permit in one year. Commissioner Frost seconded the motion. The motion carries. Ayes-Ahlness, Dierich, Fischer, Frost, Pearson, Rossbach, Trippler This item goes to the City Council on December 10, 2001. b. ISTS (Individual Sewage Treatment Systems) Mr. Roberts said city staff has been working with the staff of the Metropolitan Council to complete the required update of the Comprehensive Plan. This plan update is to include policies in the plan about ISTS (Individual Sewage Treatment Systems) and is to have the city add code standards about ISTS. As such, city staff has updated the Water Resources Management Plan chapter of the Comprehensive Plan to include policies about ISTS. This proposed update starts on page two of the staff report. There are about 150 ISTS in Maplewood. Therefore, the proposed ordinance would only apply to a small percentage of the households in the city. A major concern with ISTS is ensuring that they receive regular maintenance and inspection. The Metropolitan Council and the State of Minnesota require the owners of ISTS to have the systems inspected at least once every three years. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 City staff, in order to simplify and speed up the ordinance writing process, is recommending that Maplewood adopt by reference Washington County Ordinance #103, Chapter 4 (Individual Sewage Treatment System Ordinance). Washington County recently updated this ordinance making it very thorough and comprehensive about ISTS. Rather than writing our own ordinance, the city may use the Washington County ordinance (by reference) to meet the needs of Maplewood and to satisfy the requirements of the Metropolitan Council and the State of Minnesota. Mr. Roberts said staff is recommending: 1. Approving the revised Water Resources Management Plan starting on page two of the staff report. Adopting the resolution on page seven of the staff report. This resolution adopts, by reference, Washington County Ordinance #103, Chapter 4, Individual Sewage Treatment System Ordinance, as a part of the Maplewood City Code. Chairperson Fischer asked staff when you reference by number the onsite systems we presently have, are those all located down on the very south tip where the city does not plan to put in piping or are there scattered systems through other sections of the city? Mr. Roberts said there are a few systems on County Road D but 98% are on the south end of Maplewood, South of Carver Avenue. There are no sewers in this area and there are no plans for sewers at this time. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if the plan is, upon this adoption, to immediately visit all of these sites and see if they are in compliance with an immediate shape up ordered to them? Or how would they be implemented? Mr. Roberts said that has to be worked out yet with staff. He is sure we do not have the staff to go out and visit 150 ISTS sites. We may go out and do half of them and systematically go through and see each of them. Several of the systems are in Hailers Woods that are about three years old and those would be a lower priority. The systems that are 40 or 50 years old would be top priority. Chairperson Fischer said given the worse case scenario of one of the older sewer systems that has not been properly maintained and does not meet the specifications today. Chairperson Fischer asked to meet the specifications today, what would be the procedure? This could be a costly situation of $10,000 or $15,000, and how would the homeowner be able to pay for it? Mr. Roberts said that is another detail staffwould have to work out with the Metropolitan Council. His guess is that the city would do the project and then assess the project back and put it on the resident's taxes over five or eight years. That way the project gets done, the work is done correctly and yet it will still get paid for. Commissioner Dierich said to her knowledge, all of the homes in Hailers Woods have septic systems that are out of compliance. Also, about 50% of the residents probably could not afford to add an assessment to put in a new septic system. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -5- Commissioner Dierich said those septic systems are sitting on soil that is not even the kind of soil that they want in this type of plan. Commissioner Trippler said he got the impression from the lead in of the staff report that staff was proposing that the city adopt the ordinance that Washington County had in place. As he was reading through the report he saw that there were a number of places where there appear to be additions. Are the parts that are underlined new parts from the City of Maplewood, or why are they underlined? Mr. Roberts said when staff first received this report from Washington County it came that way with the underlined sections because they had recently gone through and adopted a revision and added those sections. Staff has since then received a clean copy with the underlining taken off and that will be the copy that is sent to the Metropolitan Council. The underlining language came from Washington County as a recent update that they had done. Commissioner Trippler asked if what staff is saying is that there were no changes to the Washington County report at all? Mr. Roberts said correct, no changes have been made. Commissioner Trippler asked staff if there is a deadline for approving the ISTS report? Mr. Roberts said ideally the Metropolitan Council wanted this done by the first of the year two years ago. The goal was to have it done by the first of the year 2002. If the commission is not comfortable with the report, and has several questions, staff is not opposed to tabling it. Commissioner Dierich said having 100 feet between wells and ISTS is difficult and hardly anyone will be in compliance with that standard. When the septic systems were put in, the rules required a 50-foot minimum separation. Now you would be looking at people having to move their septic systems on their own lots to meet the standards. She is also concerned about the dual system and the space in a person's yard. Mr. Roberts said the city requires any person doing a lot split to show that they can accommodate two septic systems now. Mr. Roberts said that the city was not intending to tell people if they are in nonconformance with this ordinance to immediately change everything around to make it conform. The city knows that will not happen. Chairperson Fischer said yet the wording of the ordinance, as it presently reads, does state that. Mr. Roberts said the city wants to make sure a septic system is pumped once every three years. That is the city standard, and that helps ensure that a septic system won't fail. That is the number one thing they want to make sure happens. Commissioner Dierich asked staff if the city has qualified inspectors to inspect the septic systems? Mr. Roberts said one of the building inspectors is qualified to inspect the septic systems. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -6- Chairperson Fischer asked staff, if the city did not have a qualified inspector, would we accept certification by a licensed professional who was capable of inspecting septic systems? Mr. Roberts said yes the city would have to. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if we could somehow build that into the ordinance so we would not have to hold the work up because we did not have someone who was certified to do the job? Commissioner Dierich said watching her neighbors build their own septic system, the soil in the area of the drain field is totally smashed down, but the soil has to be virgin. She is not sure how the city will monitor those types of things with the proper soil and not being driven on etc. Commissioner Rossbach said the monitoring issue requires there to be someone competent to pay attention to the details of the system. The normal routine is that once you go onto a site to start construction you completely surround not only the area where you are going to put the septic system but also the future set aside area with an orange snow fence. Commissioner Dierich said that is not currently happening. Commissioner Rossbach said then the building inspector should reject that site if it is not happening. Anywhere Mr. Rossbach has built in the Metro area the system is always the same and the rules say you cannot drive on the future septic area. Commissioner Dierich said if you are a contractor that may be true, but if you are a homebuilder that is not true. Commissioner Rossbach said that would be one of the disadvantages of not hiring a contractor. Quite frankly he has not built a septic system in Maplewood but he can't believe the city doesn't have some information that says you can't drive on the septic area. Chairperson Fischer said that Commissioner Dierich is bringing up the point that commission members have heard time and time again from members of this commission that are out looking at sites along Highway 61 and other areas that conditions that have been put on things have not been enforced. If we are thinking of putting something in this report that is going to require additional enforcement, are we looking at what the city's ability is to supply the staffing to adequately do what it says we are going to perform under this particular ordinance? Commissioner Frost said the state rules require all people that put in septic systems follow rules. Rules do outline exactly what is outlined in the staff report for Washington County. If you have a licensed contractor, he is supposed to follow state rules regardless of what is in the ordinance. The ordinance is just the city's local rule that they enforce. However, regarding the existing systems, if the system is failing, you have ten months in accordance with the state rule and its ordinance to fix it. Failing means it is seeping into the ground, it may be in your basement, etc. You have to stop flushing the toilet until it gets fixed. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -7- Commissioner Rossbach wants to clarify in the staff report on page 3, item number 2. The City encourages (does this mean if they don't want to do it they don't have to?) the pretreatment of storm water where it would effect high-quality wetlands. Does this mean we don't care what they do to Iow-quality wetlands? If the goal is that we want to improve the water quality he doesn't see how not protecting our lower quality wetlands is doing that. Then you jump over to wetlands in the report on page 4 under the Goal it says where practicable, improve the functions, values, biodiversity and acreage of wetlands and their buffer areas. It seems like in one we are trying to make it better and in the other we are saying we really only want to make the high-quality wetlands better. He is not sure if the goals are laid out here as being general policies, what is the purpose of the goals and policies, and are they going to be enforced? Mr. Roberts said they would come up if the city did not have a specific ordinance to fall back on but clearly with wetlands the city does. It may also be a case where if someone wanted to have a variance to a wetland setback they could show they are meeting some of these goals and policies by doing something different than just the city's 50-foot setback. Commissioner Rossbach asked staff in their opinion would it be good to try to make it so that all of the goals and policies are pointing the same direction? Mr. Roberts said absolutely. Commissioner Rossbach said then between the wetlands portion and the runoff management portion there seems to be several conflicts. Such as encouraging pre treatment of storm water regardless of the quality of what the wetland that it is going into. Also the wording on page 4 numbers 4 and 5 need to be looked at. Mr. Roberts asked if it would help if they stopped on page 3 at policy number 3? Commissioner Rossbach said yes he thinks so. Also jump up to policy 1 on page 3. Should it be post or pre development? He thought the city was trying to make it so they did not have any more runoff after they built than before they built? Mr. Roberts said he would check with the city engineers. He thinks it should say pre instead of post development. Commissioner Rossbach said on page 4 under policy number 2 under Erosion and Sediment Control the word consider, as a builder he would consider it for 5 seconds and then he would do what ever was the cheapest for himself as the builder. Also on page 5 under Groundwater Goals policy number 2, another consider that the wording should be defined better. Mr. Roberts said he thinks consider means that they are planting the seed with the city council, not that the private developers would have to do it. Maybe a word like develop would be better than consider?. Commissioner Rossbach said yes. Anything saying there is some action taking place rather than the city is thinking of taking action. Another area is on page 2, policy number 5 a detailed city- approved maintenance plan. Where is that going to come from and what exactly does that mean? Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -8- Mr. Roberts said he would check with engineering. Commissioner Pearson said on page 5, policy number 3, what circumstances are there where Maplewood would require owners to meet or exceed state rules or local ordinances? Mr. Roberts said if the applicant wants to meet or exceed the rules that is great but they are not required to exceed the standards. Commissioner Fischer said as it reads the city could require the owners to exceed the rules with the verbiage that is written in the report. Commissioner Frost said what about the verbiage encourage to exceed the rules? Commissioner Frost said on page 4 policy 5 it should say in accordance with the Maplewood Wetland Buffer Ordinance instead of guidelines provided by. Commissioner Ahlness said on page 3 on policy 1 and policy 5 he thinks back to last spring when commission members were looking at the Kingdom Hall and they had a resident come in and express that a 100-year recurrence really isn't that rare and he has experienced several of them, and the commission should consider looking at a higher standard than 100. Looking at this policy this is where commission members would look at this. Commissioner Rossbach said that everything he has ever dealt with has been 100 years and it seems to be the standard. Commissioner Fischer said on page 2, policy 6, for the rainwater garden 5 years ago that was not a word commission members were throwing around that easily. Rainwater gardens mean retention facilities and perhaps in the wordage of the report it could be emphasized that retention facilities and rain gardens and other on site retention facilities are included in this policy. On page 3 in policy 2 and 6 when referring to flow rates maybe we could add the words and volume there so we could be consistent with what was said above. An attempt to control volume as well as the rate of runoff. Chairperson Fischer said on page 15 under section 4.13 you may want to specify which department it is conducted by. Under page 61, section 7.2, policy 1, department is in reference to the Washington County Public Health Department. Chairperson Fischer asked about the tables on page 38. Are these all appropriate to Maplewood? Would Maplewood have any different items that are not listed on this table? Commissioner Rossbach said regarding the definition in the report of department it is referring to Washington County Health Environmental and Management Department on page 6 of the Washington County report. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if there is a board of appeals section in the report? Mr. Roberts said it is on page 62 section 7.3. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -9- Chairperson Fischer asked staff, if in this instance commission members would mean the City Council in this process? Mr. Roberts said yes. Commissioner Trippler said as long as the Metropolitan Council is going to expect to have this done by the end of the year he would prefer to have the revisions completed and see a cleaner copy. In the word processing process, you need to be careful not to change the meaning of things when deleting words in doing a search and find to change words. Commissioner Rossbach said this was a great idea to use this report as a starting point but it needs to be cleaned up to read as the City of Maplewood's document for commission members to read. Commissioner Trippler said he thinks members have come up with some excellent ideas about making these goals and policies. Commissioner Dierich said she would agree with the comments made and would also like to see a cleaner copy. She is also concerned about page 63 and making sure the inspections required are indeed done in compliance with the ordinances. Commissioner Dierich commented that currently they are not being done. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if it was the intent to have a permit for existing onsite systems? Mr. Roberts said a permit would only be required if they were going to do a major repair or new installation. Commissioner Rossbach said they have this list of inspections that need to be inspected before you lay the backfill over your drain field and of course you are not supposed to drive over the drain field but you have to bring the equipment to put the drain field in onto the drain field, so the typical routine that is used is you put in the drain field and as you go, you cover it so you don't have to re-drive onto the drain field to cover it again. It is set up that the inspector wants to see the steps as they are done, but then you are forcing people to travel on the area of drain field that we don't want to be driven on to do the inspections. In most installations it is dug, installed and covered all in one pass and then the inspector can see the last three or four feet of the pipe runs. Commissioner Dierich asked staff if the city has a set of installers of septic systems that are licensed through the city? Mr. Roberts said the installers are state licensed. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if they have come up with an estimate for the council and will there be a need for additional staffing. What would be the cost of that? Is this something that would be borne on the permit cost or on city funding? Mr. Roberts said none of that has been determined yet. Planning Commission Minutes of 11-19-01 -10- Commissioner Frost said Washington County charges $10 for a permit that the sewer pumper has to have and they have to send it back to the county that states where it was put and how much was pumped etc. so there is some recovery for the cost. Commissioner Dierich asked staff right now if you have a well and a septic system you are not billed for water, correct? Mr. Roberts said correct. Commissioner Trippler said when you read through the report or ordinance it requires the systems be pumped on a regular basis. One of the reasons you want to pay the fee is that you get a piece of paper that somebody actually paid to pump the system and then it can be put in a database. This way you can keep track if whether these systems are in fact pumped and when they are supposed to be pumped, otherwise you have no idea of the maintenance record. Commissioner Trippler moved to table the ordinance amendment resolution for ISTS Standards until the city staff presents commission members with a clean copy and incorporate the changes that were discussed. Commissioner Rossbach seconded the motion. The motion carries. Ayes-Ahlness, Dierich, Fischer, Frost, Pearson, Rossbach, Trippler c. Resolution of Appreciation for Jack Frost Mr. Roberts said that most of the commission members already knew that Jack Frost submitted his resignation to the commission in September and he was gracious enough to extend his term until the end of the year. Commissioner Pearson moved to approve the resolution of appreciation for Jack Frost. Commissioner Rossbach seconded the motion. VII. The motion carries. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS Ayes- Ahlness, Dierich, Fischer, Frost, Pearson, Rossbach, Trippler None. VIII. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS a. October 22, 2001, city council meeting: Mr. Ahlness No planning commission representation was needed at this meeting. IX. Planning Commission -11- Minutes of 11-19-01 b. November 13, 2001, city council meeting: Mr. Trippler Hill Murray High School Conditional Use Permit was approved by the council - ayes all. Ramsey County Productive Day Golf Course was approved by the council - ayes all. c. November 26, 2001, city council meeting: No planning commission representation is needed at this meeting. d. December 10, 2001, city council meeting: This meeting was going to be represented by Mr. Mueller but he is unable to attend this meeting. Mr. Rossbach will replace Mr. Mueller and represent the planning commission. Chairperson Fischer asked staff about the advance notification on the Care Free Villa development on Gervais Avenue. Is there anything unusual that commission members should be looking at? Mr. Roberts said no, it is an expansion of what is already there. Mr. Mogren is working on some revisions to the plans for landscaping. Chairperson Fischer said to staff in the minutes for October 15, 2001, it was referred to that an article on the big box stores would be included in the next packet and it was not. Could that article in the state-planning newsletter be included in the next packet for members to read? Commissioner Trippler asked staff if they have received any applications to fill Mr. Frost's position on the commission? Mr. Roberts said yes, about five applications have come in and whatever meeting that is held in December, staff would invite those applicants to come and do interviews for the position. STAFF PRESENTATIONS Mr. Roberts said there is a meeting December 17, 2001. There is talk of having a city council meeting at 5:00 p.m. and at 6:00 p.m. doing a joint city council, planning commission and possibly a community design review board meeting regarding the mall area traffic study. Then the planning commission would hold their regular meeting at 7:00 p.m. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 8:08 p.m.