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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07/02/20011. Call to Order 2. Roll Call MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION Monday July 2, 2001, 7:00 PM City Hall Council Chambers 1830 County Road B East Approval of Agenda Approval of Minutes a. June 18, 2001 Public Hearings None New Business a. Street Vacation - Lydia Avenue, east of Duluth Street b. Home Occupation License - Wethern (193 Mount Vernon Avenue) Visitor Presentations Commission Presentations a. June 25 Council Meeting: Mr. Trippler b. July 9 Council Meeting: Mr. Mueller c. July 23 Council Meeting: Mr. Ledvina Staff Presentations 10. ^djoumment MINUTES OF THE MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION 1830 COUNTY ROAD B EAST, MAPLEWOOD, MINNESOTA MONDAY, JULY 2, 2001 CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Fischer called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Staff Present: Lorraine Fischer Present Jack Frost Present Matt Ledvina Present Paul Mueller Present Gary Pearson Present William Rossbach Present Dale Trippler Present Eric Ahlness Present Mary Dierich Present Tom Ekstrand, Assistant Community Development Director Ken Roberts, Associate Planner Recording Secretary: JoAnn Morin III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Chairperson Fischer added to Item 6, New Business: c. Hillcrest Village Commissioner Rossbach added to Item 8, Commissioner Presentations: d. Lower Afton Road Mr. Roberts added to Item 9, Staff Presentations: a. National Night Out b. City Tour Commissioner Pearson moved approval of the agenda, as amended. Commissioner Trippler seconded. Ayes -All The motion passed. IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES June 18, 2001 Commissioner Trippler noted changes to the June 18, 2001 minutes: Page 5, Paragraph 8, Line 1: "...on the pool barn." Should read "....on the pole barn." Commissioner Dierich requested an amendment to the minutes to reflect the context of the discussion on Page 4, Paragraph 4. Adding this verbiage to the first sentence: Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -2- "... in light of the fact that the ordinance was enacted in 1988. Commissioner Dierich felt that it was an inconsistent application of code and that perhaps another evaluation or discussion is warranted regarding our code on this issue. She also stated that there were four other businesses in that neighborhood besides Mr. Schlomka's that have heavy traffic." Commissioner Dierich also requested to amend Page 6, Paragraph 6 adding this verbiage after the last sentence in that paragraph: "Commissioner Dierich strongly disagrees with the staff findings regarding the traffic. She stated that Mr. Schlomka is a one-person business. She also disagreed with the second finding regarding the visible changes to the property, she stated that Mr. Schlomka has improved his property. Regarding the noise and dust in the area, she stated that 1494 is very noisy already and that there are construction trucks rolling through every morning at 6:00 a.m. for the two developments further down the street. She also pointed out that there is a significant amount of Woodbury traffic in this neighborhood already. She stated that she felt that Mr. Schlomka did not meet city code home occupation requirement b)4 regarding the area allowed to be used for a home occupation. She also felt Mr. Schlomka did not meet code under Section 36-442, Item a)l regarding conformity with the city's comprehensive plan." Commissioner Rossbach moved approval of the minutes of June 18, 2001, as amended. Commissioner Frost seconded the motion. Ayes - 8 Commissioner Ahlness abstained. The motion passed. V. PUBLIC HEARING None. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Street Vacation - Lydia Avenue, east of Duluth Street Mr. Roberts gave the staff report. He stated that Richard and Joyce Lambert are asking the city council to vacate part of a unused street right-of-way. The vacation is for Lydia Avenue, east of Duluth Street and north of the Lambert's home at 2986 Duluth Street. This is a half right-of-way that is 30-feet wide and was platted with the subdivision in preparation in case it was needed for future street connections. Recently the city processed and approved the High Pointe Ridge Development, immediately north of the Lambert's property. There are single family lots all around Duluth Street and Carey Heights Drive, there is no longer a need for a street right-of-way in this area. There is a water main that is located in this right-of-way that will loop down to Highway 61 by Gulden's and make a connection once the property north of Gulden's is developed. Because of that, the City Engineer is requesting that we keep drainage and utility easement over the vacated right-of-way. In addition, staff feels that it is important to keep a trail easement over part of the right-of-way as well in case there is a need or desire for a trail when the property north of Gulden's is developed. Mr. Roberts stated that if it turns out in the future that the trail is not put in, the easement then could be vacated. Staff recommends approval of the proposed vacation for the unused Lydia Avenue right-of-way east of Duluth Street next to the property at 2986 Duluth Street. Staff is recommending this vacation because it is in the public interest, the city and adjacent property owners have no plans to build a street in this location, and the adjacent properties have street access. Staff is recommending that the city keep a drainage/utility trail and pedestrian easement over the north 25-feet of the right-of-way. Commissioner Ledvina asked staff about the easement to the east that leads to Highway 61. He stated it is 33-feet wide and this proposal is for a 25-foot easement. He asked if this would cause any problems narrowing the easement from 33-feet to 25-feet. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -3- Mr. Roberts indicated that easement was also laid out for a possible road connection. He stated that the City Engineer feels that the 25-feet that will be retained as easement will be adequate. It covers the existing water main that is already in the ground. Any future extensions can either work to the north or possibly go into this easement. Commissioner Dierich asked if the Planning Commission could put language in the resolution stating that if the development chooses not to put a trail in that the easement would automatically revert back to the property owner. She felt that the property owners should not have to pay twice for the vacation on that property. Mr. Roberts stated that the fees could be waived in the future, but a request would have to be made in writing. It does also depend on what happens with the property to the east. Joyce Lambert, the applicant addressed the Commission. She stated that they have been talking with the City Engineer and Ken Roberts and she does not have any questions or concerned. She stated that they knew about the trail easement going into the application, and are willing to take the risk as to whether a trail will be going through the easement in the future. Commissioner Trippler asked the applicant if the easement that is being discussed is on the north or south side of the silt fence that is there. Ms. Lambert stated that it was on the north side. She also stated that they anticipate taking care of the full 33-foot easement. Commissioner Rossbach moved to recommend to the City Council that they adopt the vacation resolution. This resolution vacates the unused Lydia Avenue right-of-way, east of Duluth Street next to the property at 2986 Duluth Street. The City should vacate this right of way because: 1. It is in the public interest. 2. The city and the adjacent property owners have no plans to build a street on this location. 3. The adjacent properties have street access. This vacation is subject to the city keeping a drainage/utility easement and a pedestrian easement over the north 25 feet of the vacated right-of-way. In the future, if a request is made to vacate the pedestrian easement due to lack of use by the city, all vacation fees would be waived. Commissioner Ledvina seconded the motion. Ayes - All Motion carries. This recommendation will go to the City Council on July 23, 2001. B. Home Occupation License - Wethern (193 Mount Vernon Avenue) Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 Mr. Roberts gave the staff report. He stated that the applicants, Steve and Mary Wethern, are requesting city approval of a home occupation license to operate a small engraving business out of the garage at their home at 193 Mount Vernon Avenue East, just off of Adolphus in the western part of Maplewood. The Wethern's have been conducting this business out of their garage for the past 14 years. They have an existing detached garage that they have been running the business from. When they recently applied for a building permit to expand their garage, staff then became aware of the home business. Up until that point, staff was not aware of the home business and had not received any calls, complaints or concerns about the business. Because of the home business, this request falls under the guidelines and requirements of the home occupation licensing requirements. The Wethern's are the only two employees of the business. They manufacture engraved nametags, nameplates, and various types of directional signs for companies throughout the area. According to the applicants' information, the orders are mailed out via the U.S. Postal Service with few customers coming to their home. Of the surveys that were sent out to neighbors, staff received nine that were generally favorable and one that had some concerns and was opposed to the business. In reviewing the city's home occupation requirements, it appears that this business will meet, and does meet, all the city's requirements and should not be a problem. This request came about because of the proposed addition to add garage space to the rear of the existing garage for storage of their personal items, lawn equipment, bicycles, etc. That garage itself does meet all the city's code requirements, there is a concern that if the business expanded much more in floor area it would go above the 20% maximum allowable space allowed for a home business. Because staff did not find any concerns, and staff feels that the business does meet the city's home occupation requirements, staff is recommending approval of the license request for the Wethern's at 193 Mount Vernon. Staff is recommending approval subject to the three conditions listed in the staff report. Commissioner Trippler asked staff if the applicants do not move their business into all of the proposed addition, would they be in compliance with the regulations for a home occupation. Mr. Roberts stated that was correct. Essentially, the Wethern's could take about half of the new garage addition and still meet code. However, if they took the whole addition, they would be above the 20% limit. Commissioner Trippler asked who would enforce that requirement. Mr. Roberts stated that city staff would be the enforcers. Commissioner Dierich stated that she drove by the property and it appears that if that much space is added to the garage, the garage will actually have a larger footprint than the house. She asked staff if there is a hard surface limitation that goes into effect at any point because the Wethern's yard is very small. Mr. Roberts stated that the only time there is a surface limitations is if the property is in a shoreland district. Outside of that, there is not a limitation and therefore the Wethern's request is ok. The applicant, Steve Wethern, addressed the Commission. He stated he agreed with what Mr. Roberts had stated. Commissioner Trippler asked the applicant if he could only move into 50% of the proposed garage expansion, what will he do with the other 50%. Mr. Wethern stated that he has a lot of bikes, a boat and other personal items to be stored in that expansion. Commissioner Rossbach stated that the applicant may want to even put a car into the garage. The applicant agreed. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -5- Commissioner Ahlness asked about the shed that had been on the property and had been taken down. He asked why the applicant does not want to rebuild the shed. He also asked what the size of the shed was. Mr. Wethern stated that it would be easier to replace the shed, however he stated that he has a lot to store. He stated that the shed had collapsed due to snow and that is why it came down. Commissioner Ahlness asked about the nature of the business. He asked if there was any smell or noise involved in the business. Mr. Wethern stated that no lasering, burning or painting is used in his business. He stated that the engraving is all computerized. Commissioner Rossbach asked the applicant if he only does plastic engraving. Mr. Wethern stated that his business does the nametags for the fire department of Maplewood. He also stated that no chemicals are involved in the process and that it is strictly etching. He also stated that there is not much noise generated by his business and there is not very much traffic associated with his business. He indicated that a lot of the neighbors were not even aware that there was a business located on his property. He also stated that he did not know that he was required to have a home occupation license because he has been doing a lot of business with the city and no one from the city had ever said anything to him. Commissioner Rossbach asked the applicant if this was his occupation. Mr. Wethern stated that yes, it is. Commissioner Dierich stated that she felt that the Commission needs to address the issue of home occupation license requirements. She stated that this is the third time this year that this has come up before the Commission. She suggested publishing the ordinances for home businesses. Commissioner Dierich commended the applicant for wanting to store his personal property inside a structure. She stated she drove through the neighborhood and counted eight trailers, boats, campers, and two commercial vehicles that were all parked out in the yards. Commissioner Frost moved that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council to approve the home occupation licenses for Steve and Mary Wethern of 193 Mount Vernon Avenue to conduct an engraving business from their residential property. This approval shall be subject to the following conditions. 1. Compliance with all conditions of the city's home occupation ordinance. 2. Any garage space in excess of the 20 percent allowed for the business must be used for storage of the Wethern's non-business-type materials only. 3. The city council will review this home occupation license in one year. Commissioner Pearson seconded the motion. 8 - Ayes 1 - Nay (Commissioner Ahlness) Motion carries. This recommendation will go to the City Council on July 23, 2001. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -6- C. Hillcrest Villa,qe Mr. Tom Ekstrand, Assistant Community Development Director, gave the staff report. He stated the Hillcrest Village Smart Growth Study has been underway for the past couple of months with the Met Council, various consulting groups, and city staff. What it entails is taking a look land used in the Hillcrest Village, including the Hillcrest Shopping Center. He showed the Commissioners two different alternatives for the redevelopment of the area, Alternative A and Alternative B. He stated that on April 26 of this year the Met Council and consulting groups held a workshop session at Woodland Hills Church. It was intended to bring together the area residents and business owners to participate in offering input into what they would like to see developed in the White Bear Avenue/Lapenteur Avenue area - on both sides of Lapenteur in Maplewood and St. Paul. The future development in the area is for five to twenty years from now. The workshop attendees brainstormed and developed six scenarios. The consultant combined the ideas together, and took what was most popular and came up with the two alternatives that were being presented. On May 24th the two alternative plans were presented to the neighbors at Woodland Hills Church and they were asked for additional input. Mr. Ekstrand stated that he would like the Planning Commission's feedback on these two alternative plans. Mr. Ekstrand stated that the two alternatives are largely the same in that they are offering a mix of dwelling units and businesses. Alternative A has 179 living units featuring a mix of twinhomes, townhomes, apartments and apartment/retail style buildings. The apartment/retail style buildings would be with the apartments are above the shops on White Bear Avenue. The units that are strictly residential will be set back a half of block to a block off of the Avenue. Alternative B is much the same, but it does offer more living units, there would be 254 living units. Alternative B also features a block- large sized neighborhood square at the southeast corner of White Bear and Larpenteur Avenues. This is a nice green space that would be adjacent to the transit hub for the bus line. Mr. Ekstrand stated that what the Met Council is desiring at this point is that he bring back input from the Planning Commission and City Council to let them know what the city's thoughts are on this matter. Commissioner Trippler asked about the dividers located on White Bear Avenue on both of the proposals. He asked if White Bear Avenue would be restricted to two lanes, or will it remain four lanes. Mr. Ekstrand stated that it looks as those on Alternative A White Bear Avenue appears a little bit narrower. However, he is sure they are not planning a reduction of the width of White Bear Avenue, but he believes what they are trying to accomplish is somehow to slow down, regulate, and control traffic on White Bear Avenue. They felt it was unsafe for senior citizens that were trying to cross, it was everybody's strong point to try to restrict the traffic speed and traffic volume. He stated that the county will have something to say about that because White Bear Avenue has to be maintained as a thorough fare, but they are trying to put in some medians in an attempt to try to separate the north and south flow of traffic. Mr. Ekstrand stated that you cannot tell from the sketches, but they are focussing on safer crosswalks. Many of the residents that participated in the workshop had bridges proposed over White Bear Avenue so foot traffic could cross unimpeded. Commissioner Mueller asked how many living units are in the area now. Mr. Ekstrand stated that currently it is largely a commercial in the area. In Maplewood there are three single-family homes along White Bear Avenue. He stated that in St. Paul along the Avenue it is also commercial. Commissioner Mueller stated concern regarding adequate housing in Maplewood. He asked if this area will be like a Grand/Dale type of community where housing is expensive, or will this be an affordable housing area. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -7- Mr. Ekstrand stated that one facet of this study is a marketing study. He stated that there are real estate people looking into those types of questions as to what is realistic for the area. He stated that the way the sequence is going is that the consultants and Met Council would like everyone involved to come up with what they would like to see as a nice development scenario. With that, the marketing people would sit down and evaluate the scenarios and determine what would work best. Chairperson Fischer stated that just east of White Bear Avenue, the block from Larpenteur to Idaho bounded by Van Dyke and Gary Place, are senior cottages. She stated that those would probably fall into affordable housing. Commissioner Mueller commented that a previous applicant had stated that affordable housing for empty nesters is $180,000 to $200,000. He stated that there are many seniors and families with children that cannot afford that type of housing. He stated that as the consultants and Met Council decide about the type of housing that will go into this area, they should consider the affordability of the houses. Commissioner Frost stated that he had attended both of the workshops. It was his impression that the area would be affordable because there would be apartments, townhomes, cottages and apartments above retail. He stated he felt it would be wide mix of housing types, styles, and prices in either of the scenarios. He stated Alternative B has more apartments, which would create more density in a small area as opposed to Alternative A that has more townhomes. Chairperson Fischer asked Mr. Ekstrand if he could zero in on the proposal that is in Maplewood and inform the Commission as to how the plans agree with, or differ with, the comprehensive plan designations for those areas. Mr. Ekstrand stated that Maplewood is the area north of Lapenteur. The area on the corner is planned commercial where the existing Pizza Hut is. The property going north is planned for R1 - single family residential. Alternative A will not hold to the comprehensive plan and will have to have some changes. On Alternative B, North St. Paul Road would no longer come directly into White Bear Avenue. It will bend and then connect with White Bear Avenue. Alternative B would encompass some of the properties going north which are residential and will be planned residential. It looks as though two lots on that plan would have to be changed to commercial. Commissioner Mueller asked what the white space on Alternative B was at the corner of North St. Paul Road and White Bear Avenue. Mr. Ekstrand stated that would be a parking lot for the proposed grocery store. He stated that both the alternatives are featuring buildings close to roads with parking in the rear of the buildings. Commissioner Trippler asked what will happen to the Super America store that has just completed a renovation of their facility on North St. Paul Road, the farm implement store, and the bank once North St. Paul Road is redirected perpendicular to White Bear Avenue. Mr. Ekstrand stated it will hinge on willing sellers. If Super America can see themselves fitting into a redevelopment scenario in twenty years, they may well just do that. Right now Mr. Ekstrand stated that he couldn't imagine SA wanting to do anything new after recently refurbishing their whole site and building. Mr. Ekstrand stated that staff will soon be receiving a proposal for a Walgreen's to take over the Burger King that is currently in that neighborhood. They are planning on tearing down the Burger King and building a new store there. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -8- Commissioner Ahlness stated his concerns regarding Alternative B. He stated the lights for the parking area to the rear of the buildings with the buildings fronted on White Bear may go into the residential areas and create excess light for those areas. He stated in Alternative A there seems to be buildings on both sides to the back of the property with parking in between. Mr. Ekstrand stated that was true. He also stated that the back area would become the dock/service area with more commotion generated. Commissioner Ahlness stated that there is good transition to the north where there is retail and then apartments, and then to pure residential. He also stated that there is quite a difference between Alternative A and Alternative B regarding the number of units, number of total square footage, and parking spaces. After looking at the plans, he noticed that Alternative B goes into significantly more areas to the north that is included in the development. He asked if one alternative has a larger footprint than the other, how can it be compared fairly. Mr. Ekstrand stated that this is the kind of thing that needs to be addressed in the preliminary planning of this area. Commissioner Dierich stated that on Alternative A there is a Mews Townhouse development and it is not shown on Alternative B. She asked where the residential area would be for Maplewood on Alternative B. Mr. Ekstrand stated that there are three apartment complexes proposed on Alternative B located north of Larpenteur. There is also an apartment/retail building proposed on the north side of Larpenteur. He stated there are no townhomes proposed in Maplewood in Alternative B. Commissioner Dierich stated that visually Alternative B is far more appealing, although she would like to see more greenery along White Bear Avenue and less buildings right up to the street. She also indicated that she likes the proposed grocery store right in the neighborhood and the town square concept. She felt that for the comprehensive plan, Alternative B offers higher density housing but stated she would like to see townhomes developed also rather than just apartments. Mr. Ekstrand stated that the consulting group did encourage at the second workshop that the participants indicate whether they preferred Alternative A or Alternative B and what aspects of each plans did they like. Commissioner Dierich also stated that she liked Commissioner Ahlness' suggestion to buffer the light pollution behind the buildings on White Bear Avenue. She stated she would much rather see the parking be encompassed by trees or buildings in the back with the parking between the two sets of buildings. Mr. Ekstrand stated that was a very good point. Chairperson Fischer asked how successful has St. Paul been on redevelopment and actually obtaining the type of business that is proposed. She stated that they had lost the grocery store in the area due to the competition from Cub and Rainbow on White Bear Avenue, near Highway 36. Mr. Ekstrand stated staff works a lot with the White Bear Avenue Business Association. They are not very happy with their success. They are not really getting the businesses they desire. They see the Avenue as a place that needs a face-lift and needs rejuvenation. The Association is very excited about this concept and hopes that it will give them a "shot in the arm". Mr. Ekstrand stated that at the meetings he had attended with them, they indicated that they are not getting the quality businesses in that area that they wish to have. Many of the businesses that are there don't seem to have the pride in their appearance and storefront that the Association would hope for. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -9- Chairperson Fischer asked if from Maplewood's point of view, the Hillside neighborhood currently has the second highest percentage of multiple to single family housing already. Mr. Ekstrand stated that there is a high percentage of multi-family housing towards the west near Edgerton Street. He stated he though Chairperson Fischer was correct regarding the high percentage of multiple housing in the Hillside neighborhood. Commissioner Trippler stated that on Alternative B south of the intersection of Iowa and White Bear Avenue it appears that White Bear Avenue narrows. Commissioner Trippler also stated that he recalled that there has been talk of increasing foot traffic and encouraging people to use bicycles and alternative forms of transportation. He stated he did not see any of that on either plan. Mr. Ekstrand stated that the plans have not yet been developed to that detail yet. He stated that they are mostly showing what types of building uses and where the parking and greenery would be. He stated that the issue has not yet come up in any discussions or meetings he has been involved in. He feels that they just have not gotten down to that detail yet. Commissioner Trippler stated that if they have the level of detail regarding parking, etc. he felt that perhaps the bike trails etc. would not be happening. Mr. Ekstrand stated he would check into this issue. Commissioner Ledvina asked if the officials of the Woodland Hills Church have voice their opinion on either option and if they have any specific ideas in terms of how this area interfaces with their site. Mr. Ekstrand stated that the church officials have not expressed their opinions to him. They may have expressed them with the consultants. They have just put in a huge investment into their building and he doesn't believe they are planning to go anywhere soon. Mr. Ekstrand also stated that he has not heard any negative input from the church officials regarding the development scenarios and he assumes they are supportive of this planned development. Chairperson Fischer asked staff if they knew whether the church officials prefer Alternative A or Alternative B. They are the nearest neighbor to the development. Mr. Ekstrand said he could look into their preference to the plans. Commissioner Rossbach stated that he prefers Alternative A with a change to North St. Paul Road and putting in a town square. He feels that Alternative B is too intense, with too many people/housing being put into the area. He also stated that the area is already a single-family residential area but it is tight with small lots. He feels that the City of Maplewood is already on track with the density and stated he feels we do not need to make any extra special strides to go above and beyond where the city is right now. Commissioner Mueller asked why on Alternative B did they develop the land north of North St. Paul Road and on Alternative A they left it as is. He stated that there is room for improvements on Alternative A. Mr. Ekstrand stated that so many ideas were given at the initial workshop that the consultants tried to use as many of them as they could. Commissioner Mueller stated that he was sure that any church would rather have residential people within walking distance from their facility rather than commercial development. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -10- Commissioner Dierich asked if the cutout parking in North St. Paul along 7th Avenue or along Snelling are now out of vogue for planning. She would much rather see parking along White Bear Avenue where you pull in nose first for parking. She felt that parking in the back of the businesses would create a challenge for some of the senior citizens. She also stated that she agrees with Commissioner Rossbach regarding the high density housing that is proposed in Alternative B. She would like to see more townhomes in Alternative B. Commissioner Frest stated that he thought the intention was to be like Grand Avenue, which is with the businesses right on the Avenue and parking in the rear, with access frem both sides and be very walkable. He believes the plans both have large sidewalks making it very accessible for walkers. He also stated that once the road is narrewed, the traffic automatically calms itself. He felt that people would avoid this area unless they are going there for shopping. He did not think that it would be used as a big thorough fare. Commissioner Dierich asked if that indicated that everyone who did not live in the neighborhood would not be going to that area. Commissioner Frost indicated yes, that this is a neighborhood development and that is why the grocery store was a big concern with the neighbors. Currently, there is no grecery store where the people can walk to. The seniors would like somewhere they could walk to to do their grocery shopping. He felt that is the intention of the plans. Commissioner Dierich stated she liked the intention, but questioned whether it would serve the business community. Currently, the businesses are drawing from other areas. Commissioner Frost stated that the intent was to have neighborhood businesses. He stated that the businesses that he has talked with were excited about the development. Commissioner Rossbach stated that in his ideal city this is an example of what we should have. There are neighborhoods that have small neighborhood stores that make the neighborhood independent. It was like that in the past, then it went to "big box" retail and places like the mall. He stated that it's not that the area wants to exclude people from outside the neighborhood, but rather take care of the neighborhood needs in a fashion that is walkable and neighbor friendly. Mr. Roberts stated that the thought was to add more housing units in the area so the businesses that would be there would have a larger customer base within walking distance. He stated that is why we are seeing the higher density in the area. He also guesses that the real estate moguls will say that the only way financially that any of this would work is if there is higher density housing. Lower density townhomes and single-family homes are not going to pay to make these plans financially workable. Commissioner Pearson stated he liked Alternative A. He likes the lessor density, but if that area is going to be successful and survive, it will need some density that will shop in the area. He also stated he feels the area will not be a place that people will drive to to utilize retailers there. He stated he would like to see a central park on Alternative A next to the transit area rather than the additional retail and office space. He also stated he agreed with Commissioner Rossbach that with either plan a realigned North St. Paul Road would surely solve some traffic problems in that area. Chairperson Fischer asked about the proposed Walgreen's store on the Burger King site. She asked if that would be in addition to or in lieu of the existing Walgreen's near Rainbow north of Highway 36. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -11- Mr. Ekstrand stated that they asked the developer that and they have not said yet. He stated that his guess is that the one north of Highway 36 will be closed. Walgreen's has been wanting a drive-through facility at their present location for some time. However, due to the way the building is set on the site, they have been unable to construct a drive-through. Commissioner Dierich stated that it is nice just having a plan in that area. It is currently so miss- matched in that area and there is no cohesiveness as far as stores, housing, etc. She stated she would be happy with either plan just to get the area looking better than it currently does. Commissioner Frost added that he liked Alternative B but without as many apartments and perhaps with more townhomes. He stated he liked the change to North St. Paul Road, the park, and the grocery store on Alternative B. He stated he would like to see the density half way between the two Alternatives. Chairperson Fischer asked about the discount grocery store in the area. Commissioner Frost stated that they are looking for a grocery store similar to a Nolan's or Jerry's type grocery store that are not quite as big as the Cub or Rainbow, but bigger than the discount grocery store currently there. Commissioner Trippler asked exactly what the staff was looking for from the Commission regarding this plan. Mr. Ekstrand stated that what they are discussing is what they are looking for. They are in a working stage and are looking at what aspects of the plans the Commission likes and dislikes. Commissioner Trippler stated he likes the density of Alternative A but likes the layout of Alternative B. He stated he really dislikes the way that North St. Paul Road currently comes into White Bear Avenue. He stated the only thing he dislikes about Alternative B is the street design for White Bear Avenue. He stated that it looks as if they are restricting White Bear Avenue down to a half lane south of Iowa. He stated his recommendation would be that walkways and bikeways need to be added into the plan. Commissioner Rossbach stated that as a group the consensus is that they favor Alternative B but would like to see the density lowered. Commissioner Ahlness asked if it were the design of Alternative B that was liked or was it the grocery store and the open square that they liked. Commission Rossbach added that those items along with the road change of North St. Paul Road. Chairperson Fischer added there is a valid concern regarding Alternative B and it's restricted traffic flow on White Bear Avenue. She stated the drivers of the area have a way of finding alternative routes when it gets too tedius. She asked if those alternative route would be on McKnight Road. She stated that White Bear Avenue has been a carrier of traffic historically and that the businesses that would be on White Bear Avenue would like the traffic going slower past their businesses and perhaps stop in. She stated the purpose of the street is not to bring business into individual stores but rather carry the traffic in that area. Commissioner Rossbach stated he interpreted what Commissioner Trippler stated differently. He stated that on Alternative B the section south of Iowa is essentially the same street that we currently have and once it goes north of there it is expanded and has dividers between the lanes. He stated that he does not see that it is restricted more so than it is now. He indicated that on Alternative A it is all about the same width. He stated we may be making too much of something that we don't really know what they are showing. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -12- Commissioner Dierich stated, as an example, that she would go out of her way to drive Summit Avenue because it is very nice to travel down that road, even though it is only 30 mph and may take her ten minutes longer. She stated that she thought there would be a certain percentage of people that would travel White Bear Avenue just because it had the dividers, trees, and had a nice look to it. Commissioner Ahlness stated that on Alternative A he felt that it was a "status quo". It seems that if you are driving down White Bear Avenue and someone is making a left-hand turn, many people pass on the right. He stated that looking at Alternative B it appears that what they have done is not narrow the road down to two lanes south of Iowa, but it appears in the commercial area there is a left turn lane available for them and there appears to be a left turn at Larpenteur allowing people to make their turns without totally restricting the traffic. Commissioner Dierich suggested slowing the traffic speed down. Chairperson Fischer stated that in some areas of White Bear Avenue there is parking along the side of the road which restricts the flow of traffic. Commissioner Pearson stated that at one time there was consideration about bring North St. Paul Road out to White Bear Avenue via Ripley Avenue. Mr. Ekstrand stated that at a staff level there was some discussion during the White Bear Avenue Corridor Study regarding that type of change. To his knowledge, nothing has happened with that. Chairperson Fischer asked staff what the processes of this plan from this point will be. Mr. Ekstrand stated that at this point he is gathering input from the Planning Commission and then from the City Council. He stated staff will then see what direction they receive from City Council and then proceed as directed. VII. VISITORS PRESENTATIONS VIII. No visitors were present. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS Ao June 25 City Council Meeting: Commissioner Trippler attended this meeting. He stated that the item that was before the Council was the Afton Ridge development. He stated that staff presentation to the Council was very thorough on all the issues concerning this development. He stated that the public discussion was brief. He reported to the Council that the Planning Commission was concerned about the traffic in that area and the plan to deal with that issue. The City Council separated this into three parts; land use plan change, zoning map change, and preliminary plat. They approved all three. They added a berm between the southwest development and the house at 349 Parkview. They also identified a 26-inch diameter elm tree that will be saved. Commissioner Rossbach asked if the City Council had added some type of water collection pond on the property. Commissioner Trippler stated that no, they had not. Mr. Roberts stated that based on the discussion at the last meeting, there is a condition that the City Engineer had staff add to the report before it went to the Council regarding the water collection pond. It stated that the developer would have to do some type of on-site ponding to meet NURP standards. That was adopted as an additional condition of approval. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -13- Mr. Roberts added that at the June 25th Council approved three award of bids for equipment for the dispatch center, the radio equipment, the 911 answering equipment, and the recording equipment. Therefore, the dispatch center is definitely going forward. The proposed date for opening is in September or October. Commissioner Frost inquired where the funds would be coming from for the equipment. Mr. Roberts stated they will be selling bonds to finance the three-quarters of a million dollars. Commissioner Trippler asked if this item had been advertised that it would be on the City Council agenda. He also stated that we already have a 911 service. Mr. Roberts stated that the 911 dispatching is now handled by Ramsey County. They have informed the city that they are ending their service for Maplewood and we would have to provide our own service. City Council made the choice to bring the dispatching back to the city, and have it operate from City Hall, as it did up to about two years ago. The city is currently in the process of rebuilding the dispatch center. Commissioner Trippler asked if the City Council had done a study that showed that having our own 911 was cheaper than hiring it out to someone else. Mr. Roberts stated he was not aware of any such study. July 9 City Council Meeting: Commissioner Mueller will attend this meeting. However, he will not be available to report back to the Planning Commission on July 16. The used car sales application will be on that agenda. C. July 23 City Council Meeting: Commissioner Ledvina will attend this meeting. Commissioner Rossbach discussed the issue of the speed limit on Lower Afton Road. He suggested that the Commission send a resolution to the City Council with a recommendation regarding the speed limits in that area. Mr. Roberts stated that this topic was brought up with the Afton Ridge project at the City Council meeting. He stated that the Council has asked the county to do a speed study on Lower Afton Road. He stated that the city engineer has sent a letter to the county engineer asking for the study. Commissioner Rossbach stated that the Commission is not asking for a study, but are asking for the speed limit to be lowered. Mr. Roberts stated that the study is the first step, and the speed limit will not be lowered without first having the study done. Commissioner Rossbach stated that the Commission could still put their support behind that by issuing a recommendation. Chairperson Fischer asked if given the design of the road, which was obviously for a higher speed, less urbanized area, she was not sure what would be the recommendations once the engineers looked at it whether it would be additional turning lanes. Mr. Roberts stated that the County is looking at the intersection of McKnight and Lower Afton Roads with adding the turn lanes or reconfiguring. He also stated that the engineer reported that on Century Avenue from 94 South all the way to Lake Road will also be looked at, much of that is State Highway 120, that eventually will be turned back to the County and there will probably be a reconfiguration at Lower Afton and Century, with possible traffic signals. This will tie in with the new golf course that the county wants to build on the workhouse property. All this will be happening in the next two or three years. We can expect to see design changes at both the intersections at Lower Afton and Century and Lower Afton and McKnight, whether that does anything for the speed in-between the two. Chairperson Fischer stated that the Commission could use a little education on what are the rules that are governing both the design and the speeds that are on the county roads, or roads that have funding from other jurisdictions that are in our area. Whether they are consistent and whether we have really ever looked at them all, or just a piece a time as there has been a problem in the area. She suggested that this topic might be an in-service training session for the Commission that the city engineer could present. Mr. Roberts stated yes, that was possible. Discussion continued regarding the speed limits on other roads in Maplewood. Commissioner Rossbach moved to recommend to the City Council that they actively pursue getting Ramsey County to reduce the speed limit on the Lower Afton Road. The reasons being that in the Planning Commissioner's view of Maplewood, they could find no other similar roads that have as high of speed limit as Lower Afton Road, and also that with the future development in the area it will become more congested and be in further need of reduction. Planning Commission Minutes of 07-02-01 -14- Commissioner Frost seconded the motion. Ayes - All Motion carries. Chairperson Fischer asked about the garage-zoning item that was included in their packets. Mr. Roberts indicated that he included it just for their information. Chairperson Fischer asked if given our limitation on garage sizes, how would it equate into garage size. Mr. Roberts stated that if there is a one-acre lot, a five or six car garage would be allowed. He stated that three and four car garages fit on many of the properties in Maplewood. Commissioner Dierich asked staff what the formula was to determine the amount of garages. Mr. Roberts stated there is no formula, it is a table that was adopted by the City Council in about 1986 or 1988. The basic theory is that the larger the lot, the more garage space you can have. Chairperson Fischer ask staff if the City of Maplewood's farm ordinance addressed how many animals were allowed per acre. Mr. Roberts stated that livestock are only allowed by conditional use permit, and the amount allowed would be reviewed as part of an application. Commissioner Dierich stated that this information should be published in the Maplewood In-Motion. Chairperson Fischer asked staff even if a person had farm zoning they cannot have farm animals without a special permit. Mr. Roberts stated that was correct. Chairperson Fischer asked if a horse would be considered a farm animal. Mr. Roberts stated that there are a few cases that horses on the property have been grandfathered in. Commissioner Ahlness asked staff about the split of a residential lot on County Road C right by the lake. It appears that they are currently building one residence, and it seems rather tight. Commissioner Ahlness asked staff if the applicant had decided to build only one residence on the property. Mr. Roberts stated that the applicant will be building two houses on the property. IX STAFF PRESENTATIONS Ao Mr. Roberts stated that the City will have a National Night Out event on Tuesday, August 7. There will be a table for the Planning Commission and asked if anyone would like to volunteer to participate at the table. If anyone is interested, contact Tom Ekstrand or Melinda Coleman for more details. Chairperson Fischer asked if there would be a large display of the comprehensive plan available for people to see Chairperson Fischer stated that having something visible and easily seen as they are walking by the table, might attract more people in to ask questions. Mr. Ekstrand stated that staff will get that information onto boards for easy display. Bo Mr. Roberts asked the Commission if there was anything specific that they would like to see for the City Tour on July 30th. He stated he is now in the process of setting the route and having maps made. He stated that Chairperson Fischer had volunteered to do some speaking during the tour, and also Commissioner Ledvina had volunteered to speak on behalf of the Community Design Review Board. Chairperson Fischer stated that it might help if the Commission knew what neighborhood they would be going to in order to volunteer to speak. X. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 8:43 p.m.