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Home My WebLink About03/20/2007 MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION Tuesdav. March 20, 2007, 7:00 PM City Hall Council Chambers 1830 County Road BEast 1. Call to Order 2. Roll Call 3. Approval of Agenda 4. Approval of Minutes a. March 6, 2007 5. Public Hearings 7:00 St. Paul's Monastery Redevelopment (2675 Larpenteur Avenue East) Conditional Use Permit for Planned Unit Development (PUD) Preliminary Plat (Century Trails Commons) 6. New Business a. Comprehensive Plan Update - Background Information 7. Unfinished Business None 8. Visitor Presentations 9. Commission Presentations March 12 Council Meeting: Mr. Pearson March 26 Council Meeting: Ms. Fischer April 9 Council Meeting: Mr. Yarwood April 23 Council Meeting: ?? 10. Staff Presentations 11. Adjournment MINUTES OF THE MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION 1830 COUNTY ROAD BEAST, MAPLEWOOD, MINNESOTA TUESDAY. MARCH 20, 2007 I. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Fischer called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Vice-Chairperson Tushar Desai Chairperson Lorraine Fischer Commissioner Harland Hess Comrnissioner Gary Pearson Commissioner Dale Trippler Commissioner Joseph Walton Corn missioner Jeremy Yarwood Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Staff Present: Chuck Ahl, Public Works Director David Fisher, Building Official Tom Ekstrand, Senior Planner Ken Roberts, Planner Lisa Kroll, Recording Secretary III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Commissioner Trippler rnoved to approve the agenda. Commissioner Pearson seconded. Ayes - Desai, Fischer, Hess, Pearson, Trippler, Walton, Yarwood The motion passed. IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Approval of the planning commission minutes for March 6, 2007. Commissioner Trippler had corrections to pages 3, 4, 7, and 9. On page 3, first paragraph, eighth line change prisons to prisoners. On page 4, after the ninth paragraph, insert a new paragraph with a sentence that says Mr. Biedny said no. On page 7, in the ninth paragraph, the paragraph has been reworded to say Commissioner Trippler said as the planning commission looks at the goals and policies for the city we should keep that in mind. If a policy says the city shall protect a natural resource, that could be an area someone who does or doesn't want a development to go through could bring up. If this is what the comprehensive plan says then this is what you must do. A developer could point to other rules and regulations and say the comprehensive plan allows it, but he wants to make sure the city doesn't have those potential conflicts waiting to be explored. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -2- Chairperson Fischer had corrections to page 9 and 10. On page 9, in the fourth paragraph, the last word should say [s not I's. And in the last paragraph, last sentence it should say met council system statements. On page 10, first paragraph, second line, after any way insert the words they can. In the last paragraph, third line before the words two or three insert the word least. Commissioner Desai had a correction to page 9. In the sixth paragraph, second line, change city's to cities. Commissioner Trippler moved to approve the planning commission minutes for March 6, 2007, as amended. Commissioner Hess seconded. Ayes - Desai, Fischer, Hess, Pearson, Trippler, Walton, Yarwood V. PUBLIC HEARING St. Paul's Monastery Redevelopment (2675 Larpenteur Avenue East) (7:09 -10:17 p.m.) Mr. Ekstrand said the Sisters of St. Benedict of St. Paul's Monastery, are requesting approval of the following development plans for their 31.04-acre site at 2675 Larpenteur Avenue East: .. A 40-unit seniors-housing apartment building to be operated by Common Bond Communities. Common Bond is a developer and manager of affordable housing. " A 50-unit town house development also to be built and operated by Common Bond. The existing 11 O-car parking lot for the monastery on this site would be removed and relocated south of the monastery building. " A change in use of the existing monastery building. This building would be sold to the Tubman Family Alliance for use as a family-violence shelter/residence. This proposed facility would be used for offices, housing, community support, information and training, child-care and education. There would be a 108-car parking lot added to the south end of this proposed parcel for the Tubman Family Alliance. There would also be a 33-car parking lot provided northeast of the monastery building. The Tubman Family Alliance use of this building would include 37 housing units as follows: six for single women, 18 for mothers with one to two children, six for mothers with three or more children, four for adult males and three forfamilies with mothers and teenage boys. " A future monastery on the north end of the property. The existing monastery building was constructed to house 278 Sisters. Today, the community consists of 58 Sisters, 35 of which reside on the site. Therefore, there is no need for such a large building. The applicant will provide specific details and plans for this building at a later time. The applicant has not submitted any site and architectural plans; these will be provided later for review by the CDRB. City staff surveyed 46 property owners within 500 feet of the site. Of the eight replies, one was in favor, seven were opposed and one offered a comment about the overall design of the development. One additional letter was received in support of the project from the Mayor of the City of Bloomington. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -3- Commissioner Trippler asked if the parking lot shown next to Lot 1 Block 1 is the parking lot for the proposed 50 unit town home complex or is that a parking lot that is going to replace the parking lot for the monastery? Mr. Ekstrand said the proposed parking lot would replace the parking lot being lost and it would serve the future Tubman Family Alliance Service Center at the monastery. Commissioner Hess asked if there was a plan to put a fence between the Hill Murray School and the proposal for the monastery? Mr. Ekstrand said not presently. Commissioner Yarwood said one of the conditions for the conditional use permit is that the use would generate only minimal vehicular traffic on local streets and would not create congestion or unsafe access on existing or proposed streets. He said generally he doesn't have a problem with this development except for the traffic issues. The comments made by Chuck Ahl were that he didn't feel the traffic study proposed by the applicant was sufficient to adequately address what is happening in the area. For that reason he is uncomfortable making a finding or a recommendation for this unless we have what the city thinks are accurate traffic data and predictions for this area that would include this development. Mr. Ahl said as Mr. Ekstrand said, we have to look at the site and the maximum use that can be generated. The use that has been proposed is far below what it could be developed for so we need to understand it could be a lot worse than what they are proposing. However, as he looked at the numbers and Mr. Ekstrand started talking about some of the regional planning, our concerns are twofold. Number one, the traffic study does not provide justifications for some of the numbers that are in there and it's a proposal that we need to look at and understand how those numbers were generated, and his concern is with a 40 unit senior housing complex the city typically uses 6 trips a day per unit. The commission knows the City of Maplewood has a lot of senior housing complexes. If you look at the numbers, they plan for 3 vehicle trips a day so we need to understand the difference in numbers that have been determined. In the morning, leaving the senior apartment complex during the peak hour, they are assuming 1 vehicle trip leaving the site. To Mr. Ahl that seemed unrealistic but going back to the original premise, different types of housing would have greater impacts, so we need to understand the low numbers. We need to analyze how that will impact the roadways for Century and Larpenteur Avenues with vehicle trip numbers that are closer to what the city thinks are reasonable. More importantly, what the city has used to analyze traffic impacts in the other areas of the community. He doesn't think that is a basis for denial of the plan. It's an issue that we need to work through. We need to have the appropriate controls for the traffic concerns. Mr. Ahl said the second part of the analysis is part of the bus garage proposal; we had a multi- jurisdictional work group that looked at traffic in this area. His concern with the site plan isn't the way it's designed now. He thinks it's the city's responsibility to look over the next 10, 20, and 30 years at these roadways. The state of transportation in Minnesota is clear. There will likely not be any road improvements to Larpenteur or Century Avenue for capacity improvements for 25 to 30 years. Traffic will grow by 50-75% on those roadways in that period of time. This is the state we are in and it's called urbanization. The State of Minnesota is not funding transportation very well at this point in time. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -4- Mr. Ahl said it's the city's responsibility at the local level to try to incorporate how things work. Is there a roadway system that can help alleviate the conditions of the intersections along Century Avenue in particular? If you head south on Century Avenue, in 20 years there is probably going to be a signal system at Holloway Avenue. There is a signal system at Highway 5 and one at Larpenteur Avenue. There most likely is a signal system at Maryland Avenue or in that area and one signal system at Stillwater Avenue. The more access points we have, the more likely you are going to have congestion on that roadway. The city is working with MnDOT and eventually Ramsey County as they get involved with the process should we have some type of connection from this development as well as Hill Murray School to the north. Then through the vacant property (where the bus garage was proposed and denied by the city council) should there be a roadway connection through there. The city just isn't sure. Our concern is, don't let this development preclude our ability to plan for the next 5 to 10 years. So that's why Mr. Ekstrand made the recommendation for condition 5. in the staff report. We want to understand the impacts and why the traffic numbers are lower than what we think they are going to be. Before we proceed to the next phase, which is the future Monastery, let's work out the details. The city doesn't have a lot of money to build new roadways either. There may not be a need forthe roadway either. That's the long answer to Commissioner Yarwood's question, but at this point the city doesn't have the answers we think are necessary regarding the potential traffic impacts. Commissioner Hess had a question forthe Building Official. One issue that was mentioned in the staff report was that the existing monastery building may require a full NFPA 72 fire alarm system. He said he was talking to a friend who is in the design business and it sounded like that building will require that upgrade to be done which would be extensive. He assumes the Monastery building is sprinklered. With the new occupants, a number of things would probably need to be dealt with. Mr. David Fisher, Maplewood Building Official, addressed the commission. He said he has only been in the Monastery building once or twice and he couldn't remember if the building was sprinklered or not but he said the building is well built. If the building changes occupancy, the building would be required to be fully sprinklered and be required to be monitored with the full NFPA 72 fire alarm system. Chairperson Fischer said what you are saying is in order to meet today's building codes that would be a requirement in order to meet the CUP for the building. Mr. Fisher said if you change occupancy, or the use, then that changes the building code requirements and the building would have to be brought up to the current code. Commissioner Trippler said the largest concern people seem to have is regarding the traffic. The city has access to traffic counts on Larpenteur and Century Avenue, if you assume the trip counts we typically see in residences like this, did the city make an effort to do an analysis of whether or not this would have an impact on these roadways at a higher count or not? Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -5- Mr. Ahl said the city did a preliminary look and estimated the numbers at a difference of 2Y:z to 3 trip counts. Granted the city's numbers are extremely high because we assume the worst case scenario. Under that scenario for the current existing 2007 traffic volumes in the area, we would likely recommend approval of this plan. As we get out 5 to 10 years, there likely would have to be some turn restrictions in the area. This is his concern. When you start putting turn restrictions in and altering access for emergency vehicles, you have to remember what the site uses are. The police and fire chief will tell you 83% of the fire calls received in the City of Maplewood are medical calls and a vast majority of them are related to seniors. When we start having to make traffic restrictions because of roadway volumes as it starts restricting access, it makes it more difficult because the fire station that serves this area is at Maryland and Century Avenue so the emergency vehicles would come south and would need to find an access. If you look at the two access points on Century and Larpenteur Avenue and you put a right turn in and right turn out we would also have to do that along Larpenteur Avenue. Eventually emergency vehicles would get into the site but leaving the site would become more difficult. Those are the city's concerns. We need to be sure the traffic volumes are reasonable. The city needs to understand at some point in time we will need to start adding those restrictions. The city will certainly have to be uniform in our application of those. You can't pick out this development and put in turning restrictions; you have to apply the process uniformly. You have to look at the driveways to the Hill Murray School and other roadways in the area. One thing the city doesn't want to do is to force additional traffic leaving this site over to some of the area streets such as Sterling Street. Three to five years isn't going to be a major problem because there are peaks in the area. They are 10 and 15 minute peaks when students arrive at Hill Murray School and leave the school. Commissioner Pearson said in the police report in the staff report it mentions almost a certainty that Larpenteur and Century Avenue would have to be posted on the north and south side with No Parking. He asked what the likelihood would be? Mr. Ahl said in his opinion that is definitely a direction the city will have to go. The more turning movements that there is, the city will have to put additional controls on the area and likely will put those parking restrictions on. Putting the no parking restriction on Larpenteur Avenue wouldn't impact a lot of people until you get closer to Hill Murray High School where there is some on- street parking allowed. Commissioner Desai asked if the enrollment at Hill Murray High School is maxed out? He asks that question because of the school's future growth and the potential of increasing the traffic. Mr. Ahl said he doesn't know the answer to that question, there is a representative here from Hill Murray High School so it might be a question for them to answer. From a traffic standpoint, the city doesn't assume that the traffic volumes are going to increase overtime. The city's plan is that traffic volumes do increase. If we think about what's happened to our society from a driving standpoint, he said he's old enough to remember single car garages being built with a new house. Mr. Ahl said today's construction is built with three-car garages, which is indicative of what has happened to our traffic volumes in the last 25 to 30 years. People are driving more and they have more cars, so we certainly are seeing that impact on our roadways, businesses, institutions, schools and that has to be reflected in the traffic counts. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -6- Commissioner Pearson said looking at the plans and the number of children that are projected to be on site he noticed there isn't much playground space planned. There is a small playground space for the current daycare but he doesn't see anything additional. On the lower part ofthe plan there is a small area marked for a tot lot but that is remote from the other buildings. There didn't seem to be any access from the projected parking lot to the main building with the shelter in terms of sidewalk access. Mr. Ekstrand said these are all important details staff will consider but at this point the site plan shown, other than the parking proposed for the future shelter are conceptual. The applicant has explained they will be in with full details for the CDRB to review but at this time they have shown the 50-unit apartment complex and the 40-unit townhomes as a concept. Commissioner Pearson said he is concerned about comments in the staff report that Hill Murray High School is being used as a buffer, but a buffer takes the battering, whether it's from the wind or whatever. Without an adequate playground to occupy the kids, it's a natural fact that the kids would go onto the Hill Murray High School property. Mr. Ekstrand said that's a good point. It would be appropriate to add a playground as a condition since we are dealing with a PUD to make such a condition for children on the site so that there is adequate facilities for the children with this project. Commissioner Yarwood said one requirement for a CUP is that it doesn't substantially impact the traffic. To him it doesn't sound like we have hard traffic count numbers. He understands the density could be higher here than what is being proposed but we don't have set traffic numbers to make the judgment regarding this would create traffic congestion or create unsafe conditions on the streets on existing traffic versus what this might potentially add. If he could get an idea of the percentage that traffic would increase, that would help him. Chairperson Fischer asked the applicant to address the commission. Mr. Paul Holmes, Pope Associates, residing at 1694 Ivory Avenue, Lake Elmo, addressed the commission. Pope Associates has been working with the monastery for 3 years now helping them determine how best to use their land and building resource. The current monastery building was built in 1965 for many more sisters than what are there today. The cost of operating the monastery has steadily risen. Fewer sisters are working now than were working in the past and they found themselves with a situation that absolutely has to change. The question is how to change it. The sisters partnered with CommonBond Communities and with Tubman Family Alliance to develop a portion of their site and to sell the existing monastery to Tubman Family Alliance for their use as an east side consolidation of existing services in this area as a family violence prevention agency. This would allow the sisters to fund construction of a new smaller monastery on the north side of the site. He said they feel they have a very good and accurate traffic study. There are other speakers that want to speak on behalf of the monastery. He said they knew traffic would be a major concern of the city, particularly at the intersection of Larpenteur Avenue and Highway 120, so we commissioned a traffic study. The first observations were made on September 12, 2006, after school was in session at Hill Murray High School and Mounds Park Academy. Both schools add traffic on Larpenteur Avenue with students at those rush peaks in the morning and afternoon. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -7- Mr. Holmes said this was after Hill Murray High School completed their campus improvements that occurred over the summer which included a new entry that was added off of Larpenteur Avenue and the internal circulation was improved. We found the intersection worked very well during those early morning is-minute peak periods, and during the afternoon peak period the intersection was functioning very well. There was never a situation where it took more than one green Iightto clear the south bound rightturn queue onto Larpenteur Avenue in the morning. One time it took more than one light to clear the north bound left turn queue off of Larpenteur Avenue onto Century Avenue. We reported those results to staff in a study and they responded back on the study saying it was only a 5-year horizon. We understand there is a legitimate concern going forward, so we talked to the traffic engineer company Benshoof Associates who has been in business in the Twin Cities for 25 years. Then a very highly respected firm called Wenk Associates purchased Benshoof Associates last year. Ed Terhar, the traffic engineer who did the study is here tonight to answer any questions you might have. We updated the traffic study for a 20-year horizon and went back to look at the intersection again. We were there on September 12, 18, 19 and November 16, 2006. In all those observations the intersection was working at acceptable levels. There was a level of service A or B during the morning is-minute rush and during the afternoon is-minute rush we saw the traffic clearing during the green lights. We found an intersection that continued to work well. We submitted the revised traffic report on December 18, 2006, with the PUD and we understand that Chuck Ahl still had some concerns with the numbers so he said he wanted to talk specifically about where the trip generations came from. Ed Terhar, the Traffic Engineer, said the numbers were based on trip generation numbers forthe 40- unit senior apartment building and the 50-unit townhomes for standard data for the traffic engineering industry. Mr. Holmes said this document is the ITE document called Traffic Generation ih Edition. This is the bible for traffic engineers and it's what is used for studies all over the country. It had specific numbers that could be applied to apartment buildings and to townhomes and those numbers were used. No reduction was taken in the recommendations in that book forthose uses. He added that the real numbers that we will see within the affordable family townhomes and the affordable senior apartments are significantly less than what the study will indicate. Nevertheless, they used the more conservative number. There aren't numbers in the ITE Traffic Generation ih Edition for monastery's orfor Family Violence Prevention Agencies. So in that case, the traffic engineer goes to the "user" and asks them for trip generation data. We knew this was important and had to be right since it was from the source. So Tubman Family Alliance went to all their locations on the east metro and counted trips in and out of their locations every day. Then they went to their Minneapolis location and counted trips in and out and then from there, projected with this square footage with these uses how many trips you would get. That answer is 582 trips a day, which we believe, is a good, conservative number. We are creating 143 parking spaces for Tubman Family Alliance. If the trip generation were really 2000 vehicle trips you would fill and empty the parking lot 7 times every day, and that's not realistic and isn't going to happen. He said there are 18 sisters today of the 37sisters who live at the monastery and 18 of those sisters drive. Their current trip generation is low at about 12 vehicle trips a day. There are also some health care workers that come and go to the site so the 34 vehicle trips per day are an accurate number. We stand behind the numbers. Mr. Holmes said we have a total of 986 trips. Based on that, this intersection works in the 2026 timeframe at levels of C and above except for one turning movement in the p.m. peak. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -8- Mr. Holmes said that's the southbound turn onto Century Avenue off Larpenteur Avenue where it drops to level 0 of service. However, Level 0 of service intersections are all over town so this is not a situation that is going to get that bad over time. The traffic study takes into account a 2%, per year, background growth in traffic, which equates to a 50% over all traffic increase in a 20- year period. This is a good traffic study and we depend on its results. As Mr. Ekstrand pointed out, the site is zoned R3-H and more than 400 units are actually allowed on this site if you take the 14.3 unit per acre designation that we could have used. The sisters looked at doing a development with that density and decided that it would be a horrible thing to do because of the impact on the neighborhood which would be very very high. Mr. Holmes said moreover the impact on the sister's monastic lifestyle would be unacceptable, so the sisters partnered with the two organizations for a smaller development, 90 units of housing for Common Bond, 40 senior apartments and 50 town homes and also the Tubman Family Alliance consolidation of its existing east side operations in the existing monastery building. Mr. Holmes showed an aerial photo of the site on the overhead. He said we were encouraged by staff not to treat this site as an "island" but instead treat it as part of the regional transportation system. The reason he wanted to show an aerial photo of the site is because the site really is an island surrounded on 3 sides by wetlands, the park land and by Hill Murray High School. That is what makes this the right site for the monastery proposal. That is what makes it the right site for affordable housing and that's what makes it the right site for the violence prevention site. We have to treat the site very carefully. That's why we aren't here asking for approval of a 400-unit development. He displayed on the screen a very early site plan of the new monastery proposal generated by his office February 14, 2007, showing the new monastery location adjacent to the existing cemetery where the sisters who have lived there before are buried. The new monastery building is about 36,000 square feet over all. The reason it's placed here on this site and the reason the rest of the site has been arranged as it has is to maintain as much a sense of serenity and as much a sense of solitude as possible while still developing a portion of the site. Mr. Holmes said the CommonBond development has been held to the eastern edge of the site against Century Avenue. It's away from the Hill Murray High School boundary; it is away from the north boundary to create the sense of solitude. It also takes advantage ofthe public transportation for the occupants of those units along Century Avenue, so it's an important placement. You can see the new monastery building located adjacent to the cemetery, and the sisters need that. The sisters' primary vocation is prayer. The road route that staff recommended be approved within the PUD is a road route that was recommended by the school district as option 2 that was put forward this summer. Chuck Ahl wasn't adamant about the road location but he pointed out three reasons why they object to the roadway. First, its disruptive, you can see that a public roadway in this location passes within 200 feet of the new monastery and within 15 to 20 feet of the existing cemetery and passes very close to the Maple Tree Daycare on the site. He said there is also a playground at the end ofthe daycare building. The road would also pass very close to the western side of the monastery where the new licensed child development center will be and there would also be a playground outside there that will serve those kids. Finally the road comes out onto Larpenteur Avenue, 250 feet from Hill Murray High School's new entrance to their school and 250 feet from our new entrance to the monastery, creating a situation where you have three accesses onto Larpenteur Avenue which can be very confusing and unsafe. Mr. Holmes said this roadway doesn't serve our development and is not needed. Our development has access onto Century Avenue and onto Larpenteur Avenue. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -9- Mr. Holmes said the roadway in this position connecting Larpenteur Avenue to Century Avenue and Highway 5 is not a roadway our residents would use and there is no reason to use it. For those three reasons, we ask that you pass the PUD without condition 5. attached to it. Regarding the use, this community is in desperate need of affordable "senior housing" and "family housing". Tubman Family Alliance is a nationally known organization that has developed similar developments in other suburbs like Edina, Plymouth and Bloomington. All of them are well maintained and are doing beautifully, and this development will too. Tubman Family Alliance, providing violence prevention services, is an amazing fit for the monastery. This monastery designed by Val Mickelsen in 1965 is an important architectural building built with cast concrete, it was never built for remodeling, it was never built for an exit strategy yet Tubman Family Alliance can just about come in and use the building as it is. Mr. Holmes said we understand the need to upgrade the building with sprinklers and we will be coming to see the city about that. In our mind, being able to use the existing monastery building for Tubman Family Alliance is a wonderful thing to be able to preserve the building. In 1954 the sisters of St. Paul's Monastery came to Maplewood and bought the land. And in 1958 the sisters built Archbishop Murray High School. In 1965, the sisters built their current monastery building. For 42 years the sisters have lived in the monastery. For 42 years the sisters have taught in our schools, worked in our churches, worked in our companies and now they are asking permission to develop a portion of their site and to sell their building to extend their ministries and to fund the creation and construction of a new home forthem. In his view these women have earned this right and deserve all of our support as they respond to the circumstances that they find themselves in with a hopeful, positive, and incredibly beneficial way. So we request the city's approval of the PUD, without condition number 5. Commissioner Trippler asked if staff could talk about the need for the road in condition number 5. and why it's important? Mr. Ahl said the roadway is being studied. We have not come to the final conclusion for the need for the road, but this new road would combine the driveways. The point Mr. Holmes made regarding having three driveways is obviously not appropriate. Two of the driveways would be removed and combine into one access point instead of three. This provides a roadway connection through the MnDOT property to the north that is being looked at as a park area, soccer fields or ball fields and potentially extend that road so that you have a connection up to the signal system at Highway 5 and Highway 120. It provides an alternative for the traffic in the area to avoid backups that occur at Century and Larpenteur Avenues for a secondary access. In transportation planning you try to provide two access points. This area is limited to a single access with Larpenteur Avenue to a couple of major traffic generators with Hill Murray High School and now with this proposal. He said trying to provide a second access is why the road is being looked at. It's probably 10 to 15 years away, but we have that opportunity and we want to be sure the city looks at that now. When the city proposed this plan we knew we were getting close because neither Hill Murray High School nor the monastery liked this plan, so the city figured we came up with a solution or a location. Each of the parties wanted the road to go further onto the other party's site. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -10- Mr. Ahl said so the city figured they would split where the road would go on the site and come up with a plan that neither party liked equally well so it has less of an impact. This is the type of roadway system the city thinks may be necessary to continue to meet the transportation needs for the area. Again, not precluding the city's ability to continue the study. CommissionerTrippler said if the city really doesn't know "where" the road is going to go, how will the applicant agree to extend the right of way to the city? Or is the city asking for them to agree to that in the future? Mr. Ahl said because of the presentation Mr. Holmes made, the city needs to acknowledge that the road "may" exist. Because of the very sensitive issue of the monastery site we need to understand before we go ahead that this is being looked at for the site plan. If the city doesn't acknowledge that the road could be there and removes number 5. as a condition, that may preclude the road from ever going in. What happens if the monastery gets built and 15 years from now the city was correct in our assumptions and we have to come back and put the road in. Mr. Ahl said now we do have a road and a description that Mr. Holmes just gave about a roadway very close to the monastery. The proposal is being put forth with the sisters moving into a new building and looking at different alternatives forthe site. We are looking at putting ball fields just to the north of the monastery location. This is an ongoing study. The city is looking atthis potential of having this roadway on the site plan so the location of the senior housing, the townhomes and the Tubman Family Center is predicated on all of those issues. If condition number 5. is removed and the site plan goes forward without this roadway it could affect things in the future. The city has to understand how each of these issues are all tied together. Commissioner Trippler said he wanted to be perfectly clear because of the impact the roadway has. As he understands what Mr. Ahl said, the way condition number 5. reads we are asking the applicant to agree in writing that the city "may" want at some point in the future to put a road in if the applicant agrees they would be granting the city the right of way for the road to go in. We aren't asking the applicant at this point to actually specify the exact right of way because the city doesn't know where the road is going to be built exactly. Mr. Ahl said that is correct, the city doesn't know for certain that the cost benefit analysis is going to tell us in the next 10-15 or 20 years that this road will provide the services the city thinks it will. The city doesn't know "if' we are going to build the road and we don't know "where" we are going to build it. Commissioner Walton said Mr. Ahl said the state wasn't going to consider expanding Century Avenue or Larpenteur Avenue for another 20 years but that would only be 5 years difference from the 10-15 years he mentioned. Mr. Ahl said what the city has to understand is the designation of Century Avenue. Century Avenue is designated in the metropolitan plan as a reliever roadway because it's parallel to Highways 494 and 694 and it provides relief for traffic and local trips. The reason he brings that up is the longer term design for Century Avenue is to restrict access and turning movements. While the road gets widened, you also close medians, you also remove access and try to move access from these types of developments to local internal streets. When you do that you then look at this type of street as providing another access to the area in order to reduce the impact on Century Avenue. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -11- Father Kevin McDonouqh, residing at 226 Summit Avenue, St. Paul, addressed the commission. Father McDonough said he is here as a Board member of the Common Bond Communities. Unofficially he has a number of connections with the area he would like to mention. He is the Vickers General of the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, as such, he is a trustee of all three of the Roman Catholic parishes located in Maplewood. His father worked for 3M in Maplewood for 44 years, and his parents lived on Fernwood Street in the southern part of Maplewood where he and his family spent many happy family times. He also attended the old Hill school when it was located at the current Mounds Park Academy site, so he has a good deal of affection for and history with this beautiful City of Maplewood. He is grateful to be able to speak first because his dad is celebrating his 75th birthday and is waiting for him to go to a party. Without insult to all the others who are going to be speaking tonight, he is sorry he has to leave. He has had the privilege of being associated with all four of the partners engaged in various ways in the site proposal before the planning commission. Father McDonough said much of what the commission is hearing has to do with whether everyone can continue to be neighbors, rely on and plan together, and work with the entities that are on the priory site. For the past 16 years he was one of the governing Board members of Hill Murray High School so he doesn't feel the need to speak about that quality organization. While Archbishop Flynn was the one who approved the gift of $1.3 million worth of property to that school, he was the one who twisted Archbishop Flynn's arm to do so because of his great affection and respect for Hill Murray School. He has been associated with the sisters for many years. Their organization has over 1500 years doing business as they do it now. The Tubman Family Alliance is recognized as perhaps the outstanding provider of such services in the State of Minnesota and outstanding in the entire Midwest. CommonBond, whose board he has served on since 1990, is regionally recognized as an outstanding provider of the kinds of housing services they provide. Regionally, because CommonBond expanded recently into the state to the east of us, it is looked at as a national model. Father McDonough said he mentions these things to you because it is important to know that for a first class city like Maplewood, you have first class institutions that are asking to partner with you for the future good of all of the residents in the City of Maplewood. Hill Murray High School is an extraordinarily fine school; the sisters have an extraordinarily long and generous history of service, and the partners CommonBond and the Tubman Family Alliance have an extraordinary reputation regionally and nationally. He said there have been long discussions that he has had the privilege of being part of. Among the four bodies he is pleased that all four of them are working together. He understands that the students of Hill Murray High School continue to do well volunteering at the Tubman Family Alliance sites and assisting the sisters in a variety of ways. Father McDonough said he wants to make it clear that with his long association with Hill Murray High School and with the sisters, that there's every intention to work together in good faith with one another and clearly with the neighbors and the wonderful City of Maplewood. So he also appeals to the commission as an outsider but also to this city that you would support this request for the Conditional Use Permit for the Planned Unit Development and to do so without the restrictions that are proposed with condition number 5. He said he was grateful for the time the planning commission has given him. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -12- Sister Eleanor Wartman, Sisters of St. Benedict, 2675 Larpenteur Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. The sisters made a community decision 13 years ago to respond in clear ways to the needs of society and the church, given our demographics and our financial projections. We engage the services of an organization that works with religious communities and strategic planning, to look at the future and how they can continue to be a viable force regardless of the number of sisters that will carry forth their mission. Our mission as Benediction sisters is to live the rule of St. Benedict and that is based on gospel values. Through our prayer life and being good stewards in the use of all of our resources, we create sacred space in which we adjust and respond to whatever the needs are of society and the challenges and also that ofthe church. We believe that at the present, our gospel challenge is that we would address issues that relate to seniors, women, children and families. Our demographics have impacted our ministries as well as our finances. When we came to St. Paul in 1948 our main ministry was teaching, so we were in schools throughout the metro area and greater Minnesota. In the early 1950s we shared with the Archbishop our plans to build a monastery in Maplewood and he asked that we first build and staff a high school for girls. We raised funds to build Archbishop Murray High School, and today Hill Murray High School continues to carry on the ministry of education on that site that we began in 1958. Sister Wartman said we built our current monastery in 1965 and at that time our community had 244 sisters. 75 sisters lived at the monastery. Today we have 58 sisters, 37 of whom live at the monastery on 30 acres of land in a 1 OO,OOO-square-foot building. She said the median age is 76. With the changing times, with the church, society and the demographics, the ways that we carry out our mission today are also changing, but we are committed to continue to respond to the needs of people in our area. We are also committed to the residents who live in our neighborhood, and we have carried outthat commitment in several ways. We sold land for green space to the cities of Maplewood and Oakdale. We offer a variety of retreats and programs at our Benedictine Retreat Center and throughout the past 40 plus years many people have joined us for prayer in our chapel. For the last 3 years we have hosted the National Night Out Celebrations. The Benedictine value of being good stewards in the use of our resources prompted us to be proactive in addressing the decline in our membership and the size of our building and the impact that has on our finances and our ministries. For several years we studied the options for the continued uses of our monastery building and for the development of our land. So we are proud and excited to have found two organizations that share our mission and are able to use our present monastery as it is and part of our land. She said we want Tubman Family Alliance to share our building and Common Bond Communities to share our land. We believe that these two organizations along with our Maple Tree Child Care Center and our Benedictine Retreat Center as well as Hill Murray School, will help us promote our vision and our Benedictine legacy at the corner of Century and Larpenteur Avenues. Sister Wartman said the sisters will stay on the present site and we will build a smaller monastery near the cemetery of our sisters who have gone before us. Here we will build additional sacred space that captures our monastic spirit and supports how we live our Benedictine values. We are confident of our plans for the future. We are proud of the organizations that will come on our land and share our mission. We are grateful for the people who have walked with us and advised us. We move forward with a group of 134 oblates who spread our Benedictine values wherever they live and work and with our many volunteers who support our vision. So we ask this planning commission to approve the PUD as we have submitted it. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -13- Sister Rose Alice Althoff, Sisters of St. Benedict, 2675 Larpenteur Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She said she has been a sister for 73 years. She said she was one of the founding sisters of St. Paul's Monastery who moved from St. Benedictines in St. Joseph to Summit Avenue in St. Paul in 1948. In 1965, our sisters moved to our current monastery on Larpenteur Avenue. With the recent death of Val Mickelsen, the architect of the monastery building, she is now the only surviving member of the Building Committee. She said she hadn't spent much time thinking about another move, her fourth move as a sister, until recently. Now she's looking forward to a new monastery building. She said her ministries were teaching and the care of the elderly. These ministries will be carried on by our community, Tubman Family Alliance and Common Bond . We have a lot of faith in these two organizations and we are very lucky to be working with them. Ellen Hiqqins, Vice President of Development for Common Bond Communities, residing at 153 Montrose Place, St. Paul, addressed the commission. She said the belief is that stable housing is the cornerstone of vibrant healthy communities. CommonBond Communities provides a strong model for building and sustaining affordable homes for working families, individuals, and seniors. Founded in 1971, Common Bond Communities is the largest non-profit provider of affordable homes in the upper Midwest. Present in 35 communities throughout the region. She said overthe past 35 years, we have sponsored the development and preservation of 4,200 homes in 72 separate rental housing communities. While each setting is unique, there are core attributes found in all Common Bond Communities. Residents are welcomed into a community and find relevant services and resources to help meet their needs. Common Bond Communities isn't just building buildings; we transform the lives of children, adults and seniors by providing a stable home and a sense of pride and engagement in that home and in their communities. Common Bond Communities' mission is to build a community by creating affordable housing as a stepping stone to success. Our goals are simple and effective. First, we build new properties as we are planning to do in Maplewood as well as acquire and rehabilitate existing properties in order to create and preserve high-quality affordable housing. Second, we ensure that our properties are well maintained so that the surrounding community sees them as an asset. We are owners and managers for the long term. Thirdly, we form community and partnerships to encourage self sufficiency for families, academic achievement for our youth and independent and healthy lives for our seniors. She said at Common Bond Communities we believe "home" is everything. It allows people to feel safe and secure to have the foundation necessary to stabilize their lives. So what are our specific plans for the St. Paul Monastery site? Based on market studies that we commissioned forthe Maplewood housing market, we are planning an inter-generational-housing community on a small footprint on the southeast corner of the site. Ms. Higgins said it was a deliberate decision sited there to have access to public transportation because our seniors and the residents of the affordable homes do not have the cars that market- rate residents and market-rate seniors have. They have significantly less than the Institutes forthe ih Edition Guidelines. We wanted to cluster the housing on the southeast corner because we believe the footprint should be small. The beauty of the St. Paul Monastery site is the wide open spaces, the opportunity for trails, the opportunity for a green community and we are very interested in that opportunity. Specifically, we are planning 40-units of senior housing in one garden-style-apartment building primarily consisting of one-bedroom units. We are also planning a family housing community consisting of 50 town homes with one, two and three bedroom units. Those town homes will have a single tuck-under garage. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -14- Ms. Higgins said since we are only in the preliminary, conceptual stage she said she brought sample photographs of communities that Common Bond Communities has developed. These are only examples; we will be coming back to the city when the plans are ready. We design housing to meet the site and to meet the community style and architecture, but pictures are worth a whole lot more than words. She gave the photographs to staff to put on the overhead for everyone to see.Ms. Higgins said this included a CommonBond Housing Committee handout, a photo of the Arbor Lake Commons town home buildings in Maple Grove, a photo of the Bassett Creek Commons - senior townhomes, and Valley Square on Winnetka Avenue in Golden Valley. She said we believe each community is unique and we do not do "cookie cutter" housing. Since 1996 Common Bond Communities has won 15 design awards from the Minnesota Multi-Family Housing Association which is the state- wide industry trade organization. Ms. Higgins said we will be working closely with city staff during the design process to ensure this project in Maplewood will be our next design award. How will our housing contribute to Maplewood? First, we will provide much needed quality, affordable housing for seniors living on social security or small pensions. Our market study projected a need for no less than 555 affordable units. We are providing 40 units. We will also provide much needed affordable townhome units for families. Our market study projected a study showing a need for no less than 285 units and we are providing 50. We will put land that is currently tax exempt back onto the tax rolls adding to the Maplewood tax base and generating a brand new housing community that will provide value. Ms. Higgins said along with Tubman Family Alliance and the sisters, we are creating an inter-generational housing services and educational community that is already being noticed on the state and national level as a model for partnerships between non-profit organizations and faith based communities. For Common Bond Communities it's all about home, stability, and community. We would appreciate your support and we believe we would make good neighbors for Maplewood. Commissioner Pearson asked what percent of market rate are your units normally put out at? Ms. Higgins said it varies, depending on the community need and what we see is fitting on the site. We are projecting 100% affordable with these units. When we say affordable for the family townhome units, that would be targeted for people with an average income of $35,000 -$40,000. They aren't "very" affordable; they are "just" affordable. Forthe senior housing units we are hoping to target those with an average of $15,000 incomes, so those units are considered very affordable. Commissioner Yarwood asked what kind of selection criteria you use to determine the qualifications for the family town home units? Ms. Higgins said we have a property management company that manages all of our properties and works on two different levels. One is that we have to meet all of the financing regulations regarding the suitability of the clients and their income levels. From the standpoint of maintaining quality communities, we go through a very rigorous credit check, background history, criminal check, etc. The concept being, there is enough need out there among those who are good citizens that we can fill up all the housing we could ever build. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -15- Ms. Beverlv Dusso, President of Tubman Family Alliance, residing at 2420 Sunrise Drive, Little Canada, addressed the commission. She asked what does Tubman Family Alliance do in Maplewood today? We provide services for those in Maplewood that keep people safe and healthy. You may have known us as the Family Violence Network. We've been serving you here for over 25 years and we would guess that many of the neighbors don't even know we have been here. This PUD is simply a consolidation of the work we provide you and your neighbors in Oakdale, North St. Paul and the eastern suburbs. We serve those struggling with family abuse and we teach prevention education to your kids and to the community at large. We could give you reams of national statistics from the Department of Justice in Washington about how many and what kind of families face this type of issue, but we will tell you it's "all communities", it's "all income brackets", it's "all faith groups" and "all countries" not just in the United States. Last year 205 Maplewood residents used Tubman Family Alliance's legal services. That is more than any other east metro suburban community. We serve all suburban communities in Ramsey and Washington County. Over 1/3 of 102 families that stayed with us who gave us east metro as an address had Maplewood as their address. In our community work last year in District 622, Tubman Family Alliance taught our Violence Prevention Program to 240 students at North High School and 102 students at Tartan High School. 40 students from Hill Murray High School worked in the Hill home during the past year in the Christian service learning projects. They did a holiday gift program, gardening and many many other programs. Hill Murray High School students have been doing this for us and with us since 1992 when we opened up our first shelter. Ms. Dusso said over 1,600 Maplewood/Oakdale/North St. Paul residents participated in our prevention education learning in civic groups and in our faith communities across the city. Statistically, Maplewood families are the most significant user of Tubman Family Alliance programs compared to any other suburban community we serve. You may have a chance to hear from one of the women who used Tubman Family Alliance to change her life. Secondly, what will Tubman Family Alliance do in the monastery building? First, we will keep the beautiful building and the wonderful grounds that are around it. We will bring our headquarters over to this building which basically means establishing 20 new living wage jobs in the community. Ms. Dusso said our legal staff will have their offices at the monastery. When they are not in court they will need a place to check in. We will provide short-term housing for 30 women and 30 children. They have an average stay of about 27 days. With regard to the children, 2/3 of the 30 children are 8 years of age or younger and this is a long-term statistic. It's true of the 64 beds we've had on the east side and the 64 beds in Minneapolis the statistics hold for years over for the same group. Some of the current residential space in the monastery will be converted to offices for community partners that serve our families already in Maplewood. She said some of the space will be dedicated as a national center for learning, student research and publishing, adding Tubman's national and international reputation for innovation to others like 3M that already exist here. Ms. Dusso said we think this is extremely important work here and we believe we are on the cutting edge. The last thing is what does the physical consolidation of Tubman Family Services do for Maplewood itself? By consolidating services in one place, Tubman Family Services will help reduce the use of public services. The research that we have done with the University suggests that by having an efficient delivery of these services we reduce the level of violence, trauma and of emergency calls across the city. Our work with the Minneapolis Police Department, by early efficient access to services, Tubman Family Alliance literally reduced the number of repeat 911 calls from the families we served. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -16- Ms. Dusso said in summary, we want to serve the residents of Maplewood more efficiently then we can located in the City of Lake Elmo and the City of St. Paul Park. That means we will reduce violence, reduce the draw on police resources, we hope, and improve public health in the community at large. Bottom line, because we will be doing what we do now, better and more efficiently, we think we can save dollars, not just for the Tubman Family Alliance by being in one wonderful building rather than several not so nice buildings. We are honored to have been invited by the sisters to be part of this project and we very much hope, especially given the history that we have had with you this many years, that you will consider putting this forth as we gave it to you in the original PUD. Because we have a gentleman on our Board of Directors who has chaired our organization and chaired the Family Violence Network in our organization's original form, who was also a Police Chief, we would like to introduce him to say a few words, Mr. Tom Alleve. Mr. Tom Alleve, residing at 2024 - 3rd Street North, South St. Paul, addressed the commission. He said he was the former Chair for Tubman Family Alliance and he was also the Board Chair for the Family Violence Network, an agency that served Maplewood and suburbs of Ramsey and Washington County. He worked on the Police Department for the City of Roseville for 30 years and the last 18 years he was the Deputy Chief, so he is familiar with what this agency provides and how it interacts with the city and the city services. He wants to talk about safety because this is an important issue for some of the neighbors. Tubman Family Alliance is about making and keeping people safe. Tubman means excellent 24/7 security with highly trained staff. The security system is designed with neighbors and police input. On only two occasions in 12 years at the Tubman Family Alliance location in south Minneapolis did an unwarranted visitor come into the property. Staff called the police and the police handled the situation. Mr. Alleve said in five years at the Lake Elmo Hill home on two occasions spouses of residents came on site. Tubman Family Alliance staff called the police and they handled the situation. In the last 13 years at the St. Paul Park location, there was only one instance where an abuser tried to enter the location. Again, the police were called. We believe some citizens might be worried about the possibility of an abuser causing problems in their neighborhood. That is a real but unnecessary concern. These people, the vast majority are men, are abusers of significant others, wives, girlfriends, children, and family members and other friends. They are not serial or mass murderers. The specific reason they are in trouble is that they focus on a specific person, not just anyone person in a neighborhood. Check with your local police department to check on the specific types of calls they receive. Another example is the murder or assault of a spouse or friend such as the Lakeland, Minnesota incident we all heard about or saw on the news. We would like to point out that all the incidents we have heard about in the newspaper or on television have not happened in "shelters". He said they have not happened at Tubman Family Alliance shelters. Those horrid incidences happened at work places, schools, and suburban homes. Shelters are places for victims. Where do the abusers go? Mr. Alleve said do you have to worry about your neighborhood? Since 1997 in the south Minneapolis, the Tubman Family Alliance near Lake Street in Minneapolis, a very public location, the abusers don't hang out there just as criminals don't hang out at police stations. Those that abuse don't go to shelter locations because they know the staff will not let them in and will call 911 immediately or the person may even have a warrant out for their arrest and don't want to be caught or are on the run. They may go back to their own residence where they live alone or they leave town. Fear that this location will bring abusers into your neighborhood or have spree assaults is unwarranted and hasn't happened at Tubman Family Alliance. Again, it happens in the home, school and work. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -17- Mr. Alleve said when Tubman Family Alliance relocated from the church in White Bear Lake we did an exit survey of the area. We talked to neighbors, business people, and police and church groups. The survey results were that many didn't know we were even there, others said we provided a service for their community and finally the church elementary school with whom we shared a wall wanted Tubman Family Alliance back. They knew the life saving, transforming service of Tubman Family Alliance provided for the citizens. Just last week at our annual community meeting at our St. Paul Park location there were no concerns among city council, police, neighbors, or the church. In fact the city council said when we moved in 13 years ago that the people were concerned but now people don't even know Tubman Family Alliance is there. We want to continue to serve suburban Ramsey and Washington County as we have for over 25 years with services in the community. Being at the monastery building will give us the ability to deliver better services to Maplewood, Oakdale, and North St. Paul. Best of all, for those who choose to make their lives better, this facility will provide an environment to allow families to heal and change lives. Thank you for taking the time to hear about Tubman Family Alliance and the vision we hope to share with the sisters and the community here at the monastery. Commissioner Hess asked about the security for the center. In the information we received, it appeared security was given 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Mr. Alleve said that is correct. Commissioner Hess said he did some homework and checked with Maplewood Lieutenant Shortreed and he confirmed what Mr. Alleve said regarding the number of incidents and the low rate of police calls at these centers. He said he was also concerned about the families that would be temporarily residing here and whether they would be local orfrom out of state. He understood people would be there from Ramsey County only. Ms. Dusso said by state law it's a first come, first serve state law in the State of Minnesota. This is one shelter of 27 across the State of Minnesota, which about half are in the metro area. In fact, however, the majority of people are from the area or very near the area, in which the shelter is located. People in Bemidji clearly are not trying to stay at a shelter here. Commissioner Hess said the shelter on White Bear Avenue takes people from all overthe region including Illinois and Wisconsin and out state which surprised him. He prefers when people locally are being served by this type of facility rather than bringing people in from outside the area. Ms. Dusso said to be honest with you there may be people that are so in danger in San Diego, California that they have come to the Twin Cities to get away from danger. We have also shipped people from this area to Dallas and Atlanta for example so there is a national network. But that is not the day-to-day situation. Commissioner Hess said he understands special or unique situations may come up. Chairperson Fischer said that completes the applicant's presentations. Are there any questions for staff before we open up the public hearing for the public? Chairperson Fischer said she has never seen a petition with a long letter with it with this many names. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -18- Mrs. Carrie Hansen, 2389 Nebraska Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She said she is the author of the letter. She said she is an actual tax paying resident of the City of Maplewood. There have certainly been a number of people tonight who have made excellent presentations; they all have much to gain by the development that would taking place here. She feels that she represents a group of people who do not necessarily have much to gain. She would like to read the petition letter dated March 19,2007. We are writing to tell you that as CURRENT TAX-PA YING RESIDENTS OF MAPLEWOOD we are OPPOSED to the development efforts that the Sisters of St. Paul Monastery are proposing for their property: -90 affordable (low-income) housing units to be operated by CommonBond. .Remodeling the current monastery so that it may house the Tubman Family Alliance (a full- service family violence agency and shelter) _Construction of new parking lots and access roads "Construction of a new smaller monastery. We ask that you consider the following neighborhood concerns: 1. Traffic: There will be a substantial increase in traffic to both the perimeter of this development as well as both Century and Larpenteur A venues. The property to be developed is adjacent to Hill Murray High School, where students as well as neighbors walk and bike. The streets in this area have neither sidewalks nor curbs to separate people from the street. The potential for serious accidents increases as traffic density increases. 2. Crime: The people that will reside within the proposed housing development or at the shelter may draw unwanted individuals to our neighborhood. At a crime watch meeting a Maplewood City Policeman referred to our neighborhood as "the shiniest apple on the tree" and as such we needed to be wary of strangers who could be tempted to take what was not theirs. 3. Personal Safety: We are very concerned about personal safety! Hill Murray School enrolls approximately 1000 teenagers. Hundreds of young women and men go to and from that school in off hours to participate in school activities. In our neighborhood we have young and not so young women who enjoy walking in the evening or early morning. How responsible will you feel on the day we learn that one of us, a student or neighbor, has become a victim. 4. Property Value: So what happens when we go to sell our homes? Will the location of affordable housing units and a battered women's shelter near our home impact the price of our home? Might it also impact the decision making of a potential buyer? Additionally we ask that you note the following pertinent facts and consider them as you make your decision: 1. Maplewood Police make frequent calls to the shelters and affordable low-income housing units that are already serving Maplewood. See Emma's Place records where a child was murdered by its mother the previous summer. (NOTE: It was actually at the Family Service Center, Not Emma's Place.) 2. Hill Murray High School has offered to purchase the property at fair market value to preserve the location and financially enable the Sisters to take their mission to another area. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -19- 3. Maplewood already provides its fair share of "affordable" housing. Maplewood needs to look to stop decay as an inner-ring suburb and support new, positive development in the community. 4. Our school district is already financially strained. How will District 622 fund the extra educational services that this population will likely require? 5. The Sisters of the St. Paul's Monastery in looking to support their mission are not considering their neighbors nor their neighbors interests, including: Hill-Murray School as an organization o The 1000 students that attend Hill-Murray o The neighbors surrounding the Priory grounds with their concerns o The larger community of Maplewood that is battling encroaching crime, and seeking to redefine itself and change course In Closing: A group of neighbors spent just a few hours walking around the neighborhood looking to capture the general sentiment regarding the Sisters' proposal. We received over 100 signatures in opposition to this proposed development. We did not have public relations staff's, nor did we have the luxury of money or time. With enough time or money we could develop extensive numbers that are in opposition. You see, we are all out working to provide for our families and pay our taxes for the city and school district where we live. We want to continue to live in this area for many years. A development like this will negatively affect our long-term plans. We hope that the City Council and Planning Commission as members of the community listen to the overwhelming desires of the tax-paying citizens and take our opposition to this proposed development into your decision making roles. Respectfully, Residents of the area south and east of the proposed development A petition was provided with over 100 names, addresses and phone numbers (when given) for the planning commission and city councilmembers. CommissionerTrippler asked Mrs. Hansen if she got what she asked for, which would be to deny this proposal, and the sisters from the monastery turn around and develop this land with 400 units, would that make a better traffic situation compared to the 90 units they are proposing? Mrs. Hansen said no, absolutely not, and that's why we are asking you to consider the impact on the neighborhood. That's why we talked to Sister Carol, her husband has talked to the sisters, and we have said these are our concerns as a neighborhood. Traffic is an issue, it's a two way street, there is no separation, our daughter walks home from school every day on that street, our son and younger daughter will soon be doing the same. It is our concern that our children will have an accident due to the traffic and the increase in traffic on the street. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -20- Commissioner Trippler said he doesn't understand what your options are. Basically you are saying you don't want any development here and you want the property to be left as it is. But you don't have the right to decide that unless you want to buy the property from the sisters so you can decide what you want to do with it. Mrs. Hansen said we have the belief that Hill Murray High School was interested in purchasing the property. Commissioner Trippler said that isn't part of this issue and we can't be negotiating or deciding that because that is not before us on the planning commission. Mrs. Hansen said we are not interested in supporting the position as it exists. If it comes back before you with 400 units she said she would be back stating she doesn't support that plan. Commissioner Yarwood said we have certainly heard a lot of testimony from the applicants, feedback and letters from law enforcement, staff, and the Mayor of Bloomington and these partners have created what appears to be model communities. He understands as a resident and homeowner of Maplewood the desire to keep communities safe and that is a fundamental issue for everyone. But with these partners the monastery has chosen, and the track record that they appear to have with other cities with their developments, he is asking what reason do you have to believe that track record will not continue here in the City of Maplewood? Mrs. Hansen said she doesn't know that it won't continue and it would certainly be her greatest desire that we can count on that but we have concerns that we can't necessarily depend on those numbers. Maybe in the next four or five years those numbers are still great and we don't have problems, but we are talking about a change in the integrity of a neighborhood that exists right now, that has existed over 10 years. We are talking about a dramatic change in the neighborhood that in the course of time we expect that it will lead to attrition. Mrs. Hansen said they lost some very close friends that moved to Woodbury in November, they sold their house for less than market value so they could get out of the neighborhood in two days after finding out about this development plan. We want to be able to stay where we chose to live and we want to feel safe. Commissioner Hess said he did some browsing on the internet, checking the local geography and he noticed that within three miles of the neighborhood of Sterling Street and Hill Murray High School is the Ramsey County Correctional Facility. He said he was curious if there had been any problems, he would think that facility would pose more of a concern than this proposal would. If there haven't been any incidents from there and they are minimally guarded, he wouldn't think there would be any concerns here. Mrs. Hansen said there are a number of concerns. She said she is a person who sleeps with her windows open, she hears the sirens outside up and down McKnight Road and on Larpenteur Avenue, and she knows there is crime around here. She knows there are concerns and issues around the neighborhood. She is saying that she is concerned about developing the property as outlined and the likelihood of crime increasing is there and that is what her concern is. Commissioner Hess said with the track record and what he has investigated, it sounds like there isn't any proof of that. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -21- Mrs. Hansen said District 622 is overburden. The district is talking about removing every extracurricular opportunity for grades 5, 6, 7, and 8 in this city. No sports, no band and 40 children in a classroom. The children that would live in this facility she believes will need special assistance in school. She asked if District 622 will be able to support the aspect of educating these children that would live here? Commissioner Hess said a few years back when the Ramsey County Family Shelter was being discussed by the city council, the night he went there was the biggest night with over 600 people there and like this room, it was filled to capacity and way out beyond that. He had similar concerns as Mrs. Hansen, but as time has gone on, he lives within 1 mile of that shelter, and it's been benign as a past history. Mrs. Hansen said we can all cross our fingers, we can all pray, we can hope for the best, but on the day that something happens, it is too late. That is her position. Commissioner Yarwood said there are larger issues here. You brought up the school district, he absolutely agrees, there is more funding required and more teachers required. There is fundamentally traffic issues that have to happen with Larpenteur Avenue and Century Avenue and will have to be upgraded at some point, there's no doubt about that. We certainly can't address all the issues tonight. The question is, what is reasonable to go in this location and if this is a reasonable request. Honestly there could be a much higher density here and quite frankly that would worry him more in terms of the amount of crime or potential calls, traffic, etc. So he understands where Mrs. Hansen is coming from as a homeowner. But from the homework the commission has done and from what we have seen from these applicants, there is no reasonable expectation that the sorts of issues that you are bringing up will happen with this particular applicant. As he votes tonight he wants you to understand that is his perspective. Ms. Julie Lonnie, 2343 Larpenteur Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She is a Hill Murray High School alumni. She is here to support Tubman Family Alliance in purchasing the property at Larpenteur and Century Avenues. She has been helped tremendously over the past couple of years by Tubman Family Alliance. They have been her lifeline in dealing with and finally leaving an abusive marriage. Their support groups and counseling services have helped her in single parenting and in getting herfeet planted on the ground. She said without them she is afraid of where she would be right now. She lived in Oakdale and North St. Paul before and she has seen crime everywhere and it's not because of Tubman Family Alliance, it's going on everywhere and they are here to help. She said they have been her teachers and her loving friends who have never given up on her as she learned new ways of living and thinking. They have helped her rebuild her self esteem with patience and kindness which is what so many people in our community are in need of. Tubman Family Alliance offers so many avenues of help of which she has only touched the surface. She has received help with legal and financial matters, help with food and other necessities being a single mom makes it hard to make ends meet. They are making sure that they do all they can to put people like her on their feet and to go forward with knowledge, dignity and courage and to help BREAK the cycle of ABUSE. They do not just save lives by sheltering people from danger, they save people. Domestic abuse is everywhere and can happen to anyone. It's dealt out by our most respected individuals and on down. People that you think would never do bad things, do, there is so much belief that it doesn't happen "here", but it can be happening to your neighborhood, your teachers, your students, your best friend, even your own children and you may not even see it. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -22- Ms. Lonnie said let Tubman Family Alliance be there to help stop the ABUSE and offer hope to those who feel there isn't any. She said she recalled a saying that fits the Tubman Family Alliance "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime". Learning how to stop violence in our communities and our lives is just as important as how to read and write and our spirituality. She thinks they should all go hand in hand. Thank you. Mr. Jon Hansen, 2438 Nebraska Avenue East, Maplewood, addressed the commission. He said Mr. Ahl said that the on-street parking that Hill Murray High School students use currently would have to be removed, is that a correct statement? Mr. Ahl said he did not specifically say that, however, in his projections as traffic grows in the area, that is likely to occur over time as development occurs because that moves the process along faster. He reiterated again that is likely to happen whether or not this site develops at some point and time because we expect to have background in traffic levels. Mr. Hansen said his point is that should be taken into account with Hill Murray High School so there is adequate parking for them. The point about traffic people have been making is that there is a lot of traffic and a lot of issues here, the human side of that is there could be an accident with pedestrians and cars. The worse part is that kids and adults walk up and down Larpenteur Avenue, he knows studies have been done but the study talks about the number of cars in and out and those sorts of things. He said he drives up and down Larpenteur Avenue from Century Avenue and McKnight Road and it's getting scary out there. There are people who walk out into the street, especially at night, but during the day too, and he thinks there is a tremendous risk for an accident to occur. He said he has almost hit people at night on that stretch because there are no streetlights and there is a lot of foot traffic and no sidewalks. That is the human part of it when there is an increase in traffic and no sidewalks, there is an impact. He said we as residents can't bring in nuns, or a priest or paid staff that get a lot of money to do these studies, but there are 110 or 120 parents or another 200 to 300 people that live here that probably spent $20 on copying paperwork and going door to door. He said he was told by the nuns that the neighborhood supports this. He wanted to send a clear message that the neighborhood south ofthis area clearly does not support this. We are not public speakers or paid staff that gets paid to do this, we care about our community and they thanked us for bringing this information forward, otherwise those people wouldn't have done this. Mr. Hansen said they would have sat back and said this proposal will just go through. It appears from your statements you on the planning commission are going to approve this proposal. He said that's fine, you do that, you better understand that the neighborhood in that area does not approve of this. We had one person that disagreed with us while we were talking about this proposal as we went house to house. This is a strong message that we want to make. Maybe it doesn't matter; maybe safety isn't an issue, but it's not wanted by the community. He fears for Maplewood down the road. In the near future maybe it's nothing but the neighborhood and the community is going down hill. Everywhere you look there is more and more crime and poor properties and he thinks that this will add to these issues in the long term. He doesn't think it's the best use of the property. He said we can't afford to buy this property and he can't tell the nuns what to do with the property but he told them what the nuns do propose to do should be consistent with the neighborhood. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -23- Mr. Hansen said he isn't speaking for Hill Murray High School because he thinks they need to speak for themselves as an organization but as a parent of a child that is there, he is concerned about their safety so he does have a say and as a neighborhood member this proposal is not in "our" best interest. Contrary to what all the paid staff has said, we can't give stickers out, it's a bunch of neighbors that are concerned about this proposal and about Maplewood. Ms. Marv Lehmen, 1420 Mary Street North, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She said she is a tax payer like Carrie and Jon Hansen. She said she had no intention of speaking tonight; she was here to listen but because she thought the things she read and the information that Carrie and Jon Hansen said were very valid. As she looks at the people sitting in this room and the people who have come up to speak tonight, she doesn't see very many people in this room that have small children still in school. She has two small children in school who attend LC Webster. She wanted to applaud the principal forthe wonderful job he is doing. However, the low- income housing that surrounds the areas within this district is bringing transient populations into our school district. The kids that our children are going to school with make it much more difficult for parents of younger children to parent them and teach them the right thing to do. A lot of you would probably not believe some of the things that go on at the elementary school level. There is low income housing right across from the Maplewood Community Center, there are apartments with low-income housing and those students are not bringing the best to our school district and she is concerned that our schools and teachers can't handle it. She is concerned about bringing more low-income housing into this community and what impact that is going to have on the growing children of our community. The children at our elementary schools are the future of Maplewood and are the future of Minnesota and she is concerned about bringing more low- income townhomes into this community. She said you asked what Carrie Hansen would like to see happen with the property. Perhaps the sisters could look at other options. She totally agrees that we need affordable housing for seniors though. She doesn't think most of the people who signed the petition would have been concerned about this proposal if they were proposing senior housing only but when they are proposing to bring in low-income housing with people that could bring the community down, there is a huge impact. She said while she totally agrees with what they have said, perhaps if there was more time and more research could be done, it would be nice if you could hold off on your decision to approve that plan and give others the opportunity to take the time and spend the money that these people have spent to do their research to bring back the other side of the story. Thank you. Mr. John Proctor, 2348 Nebraska Avenue East, Maplewood. He said to dovetail on what was said; both he and his wife volunteer a significant amount oftime at LC Webster and Maplewood schools. He said his wife volunteers at least 3 days out of the week. It's important for you to understand that the low-income students that she has worked with for the past 5 years, she has gotten to know them all very well. It's the low-income families that tend to be the attendance problems as well as the children that are most disruptive to the school system. He volunteers and chaperones trips for LC Webster and recently returned from a three-day Audubon trip with the 5th graders. It was intense because of the behavior the children have. These are all great causes but LC Webster, Carver, and other Maplewood schools are significantly tapped out of resources and this proposal will only continue to add to the issues and in affect, the quality of education coming out of the Maplewood's school system. Thank you. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -24- Dr. Heather Rushford, 2444 Nebraska Avenue East, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She said she too is a tax paying citizen in Maplewood. Her main concerns are two fold. First of all, low-income housing and affordable housing has a significant direct impact historically on housing values in the neighborhood. The architect at Pope Associates said this area is like an island, it's not an island. Sterling Street and Larpenteur Avenue are direct accesses to the Oakridge Estates Addition where she lives along with over 150 families. It's not an island; it is a direct access point to our neighborhood. The addition of low-income housing will significantly impact housing values. Over the last six years that she has lived here she has seen her taxes double. The value of her home has been assessed and has increased. Right now there is a down turn in the housing market. With the addition of low-income housing at the direct access point to our neighborhood the likelihood that the houses are going to sell for their assessed value is low. Already we have many houses in our neighborhood sitting for sale and not moving for 30 to 120 days. We have foreclosures in our neighborhood that aren't moving and this proposal is going to significantly impact this area. Our neighborhood is one of the neighborhoods where the city gets their tax dollars. Her taxes have doubled and she doesn't think she could sell her house right now for what it's appraised at and to add low-income housing historically, studies across the nation show it impacts housing values and the ability to sell your house. Regarding the traffic study, the study said they were conservative and went by the traffic bible. She drives those roads and it's very busy when the students are driving in and out and it's also busy at other times. The fact of the matter is there are 150 houses in that development located south of Hill Murray High School that have small children. She has two small children and she doesn't want to move. The kids are going to grow up and drive and those drivers are going to increase expediently in our development as well as the kids in this proposed development so the fact that they only took into account a 2% increase in traffic due to the development, doesn't take into account the fact that it is the direct corridor into our development. As the kids grow older there will be more drivers in the development. Sister Jacqueline Leiter, Sisters of St. Benedict, 2675 Larpenteur Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She is a member of the monastery and she has lived in Maplewood for most of her life. She went to Weaver and John Glenn and graduated from Hill Murray High School. As a member of the monastery she has enjoyed participating in the Maplewood National Night Out celebrations and having neighbors over. We believe our monastic community is a part of the greater neighborhood surrounding us. She said as a member of the community she has been a part of the future and has had an opportunity to visit the Tubman Family Alliance sites in the east metro area. Sister Leiter said she was impressed and humbled by the important work serving local women and children in need. She is also a public school teacher and teaches school at a school located 8 minutes away from Maplewood and she serves children in low-income families. The students she serves are no different from the children she sees here in Maplewood. It saddens her that some of her student's families have been in difficult situations and have needed special programs to help them through a crisis. She is grateful for organizations like the Tubman Family Alliance program that has helped those people. It has made a huge difference for these children in their learning and to their family life. We also have children and families just like this in Maplewood who could benefit from these programs which could make a huge difference in their lives as well. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -25- Mr. Bob Nehotte, 4846 Lyndale Avenue South, Minneapolis, addressed the commission. Unfortunately, at least for now, he said he lives in Minneapolis and has for 78 years. He has two daughters who moved to Maplewood and one is a taxpayer. He said his other 6 kids have moved out of Minneapolis. He wants to move here and get one of the senior citizen units and he is very supportive ofthe sisters. During the early 1960's he was making $2.50 an hour, one of the sisters asked him if he knew he gave $75, which was a lot of money back in those days. He has been retired for 14 years now and he knows friends south of here that are taxpayers and they are very supportive of this proposal too. We could have brought 200 to 300 people here to support this and from the bottom of his heart he said please give this proposal a chance. Thank you very much. Sister Catherine Nehotte, Sisters of St. Benedict, 2675 Larpenteur Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She said she has been a member of the monastery for over 19 years. She currently works at Tubman Family Alliance and the monastery has been her home for a long time. It's hard to let it go, we have gone through a discernment process and knowing it's a beautiful facility we just don't need a home that large anymore. In discerning our future, two wonderful organizations, CommonBond and Tubman Family Alliance she just hopes that people can get it clear in their minds that low income is different than affordable housing. CommonBond offers affordable housing. There may even be students living there that will attend Hill Murray High School. She is hoping that people don't move out of a place of fear, but rather a place of faith. Commissioner Trippler said staff handed a four page memo dated March 15, 2007, about the St. Paul Monastery discussing the traffic study but he didn't see a name of who authored the memo. Mr. Holmes said that memo was offered by Pope Associates in response to the engineering comments that came out from the city. It should have come out on our letterhead with a signature so we apologize. Mr. Kevin Otto, 2276 Arlington Avenue East, Maplewood, addressed the commission. Being a 12 year resident of Maplewood he just moved to this neighborhood about 1 % years ago and he specifically chose this neighborhood because of the appeal of the Hill Murray High School, the monastery, the character, the serenity, the paths, the open space and the whole surroundings. He shares the same concern a lot of the other people from the neighborhood have. He asked the planning commission because of the overwhelming support of the proposal if itwould be possible that they modify the development plan not to include the 50 townhome units? Mr. Otto said as he looked at the aerial photos with the 40 unit senior apartment building and the smaller monastery building to the north with the existing monastery being converted to the shelter, everything seems like it's in the same character except when you put in the clustered townhomes. When he hears clustered, he thinks of congested. With so many other townhomes in the area it seems like they are plugged into the smallest areas and it seems like they want to get as much bang for their buck for the parking and the garages so he wondered if there could be a modified development without the townhome complex? Commissioner Trippler said when staff made their presentation the property has been planned and zoned R-3H which is high-density residential for over 30 years. To ask that the 50 unit townhome cluster be removed when potentially the sisters could have had a plan for 400 units doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. When you bought your property and you looked at the lay of the land it may have looked open and very inviting, but still it wasn't like anybody was trying to hide the fact that this area was zoned high density residential. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -26- Commissioner Trippler said as potential land buyers and potential homeowners, we need to do due diligence to find out what the things we are looking at are really represented. In this particular case, before you bought your property, if you went to the city or asked your realtor what that property was zoned, it mayor may not have made a difference in purchasing your home. The problem the planning commission is facing is we have to make decisions based on what the rules, regulations and ordinances are before us for the City of Maplewood and as he looks at this development proposal it's so far below what could possibly be proposed that he doesn't see how he as a planning commissioner could possibly say no to this proposal. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. This proposal could be ten times worse than what the unit count is. Mr. Otto said he feels the 50 unit townhome complex feels like it's being piggy backed on the senior citizens apartment complex and the Tubman Family Alliance women's shelter. He totally supports that, loves the neighborhood, loves Maplewood, but as a citizen and as a resident that lives here, he opposes the 50 unit townhome complex on the southeast portion of the property. He said just so you know that's the common feeling in the neighborhood to the south. Mr. Bob Bruton, 2856 Lake Boulevard, North St. Paul, addressed the commission. He said he comes here on behalf of the St. Paul Ramsey County Homeless Advisory Board of which he is a member of. He comes to you as the Co-Chairman of the zoning sub-committee of that body. We spent two years studying generic zoning codes concerning affordable housing and subsidized housing and he wanted to share a few thoughts of what we learned over two years of extensive study. According to the Planning Commissioners Journal, by 2022, one out of five citizens in this country will be senior citizens and that takes a lot of housing that doesn't exist today. Out of our recommendations to the Homeless Advisory Board we recommended a Mayor's forum that will take place in the near future regarding the document that the suburbs need to share the future development of affordable housing. They are home to many businesses as retailing only lower wage jobs. These businesses need employees who can live reasonably close to the jobs they hold. Going on to what we call our NIMBY related findings, which stands for "not in my backyard". Market values and sales a study was done in the Twin Cities by the Housing Family Fund commissioned the study on affordable housing rental and home values completed in 2001, it showed that indeed home values in the area go up, not down with affordable housing. He said we address things like the design and appearance of affordable housing. It's not low-income housing, it can actually look good. We address the Fair Housing Act and the rights of communities and the need for communities to be open to that. We addressed crime, there are studies that we can document including in the Twin Cities area that show crime actually does not go up, in some cases there are fewer crimes because of the security of the areas provided. He asks you to sincerely consider this proposal. As a former Maplewood Planning Commissioner, former Maplewood Mayor, as a former Planning Commissioner in North St. Paul and former Councilmember, he knows what you are up against, he understands opposition, but this is important and he believes in your community and he asks you to support it. Thank you. Mr. Rav Muetzel, 2678 Germain Court, Maplewood, addressed the commission. He said he is here as a Maplewood resident but also as a representative of the Social Justice Ministry at Transfiguration Church. The Social Justice Ministry strongly supports the plan that the sisters have submitted. We feel that this fits our mission of providing affordable housing and serving the needy. We also feel that the Maplewood community will benefit as well. He thanked everyone for their consideration. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -27- Ms. Debra Cohn Madson, 2360 Mamie Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She supports the sister's proposal and she is here supporting this for many reasons. She is a Maplewood resident, she is a licensed social worker; she works at Fairview Hospital as many of the sisters know. She started as a social worker at St. Mary's and she has worked with many sisters here and today they are her patients. She firmly believes in their ministry and their mission and she knows that this plan fits in with their idea of what they should be doing and how they should be ministering to the people. She knows as a social worker just how difficult it is to find shelter for her patients when they come into the hospital. Commissioner Hess was interested in knowing how placement at a shelter works. Basically when someone comes in and they need shelter as a social worker we call around and whoever has an opening that is where the person is placed. They try to get people placed as close to their own community as where they reside but that doesn't always happen. She has had people she's has had to place far away from their home. It's difficult on those patients but they have to go somewhere and if we don't have the shelters available for our patients what we end up doing is getting a voucher for a hotel and that isn't a safe situation for those women and their children. Perpetrators often find the abused person or persons a lot easier because there isn't the same type of security system in place. She wanted to comment on a couple of things, her in-laws live on Grand Avenue, her husband grew up on Grand Avenue and there are two shelters on Grand Avenue and there has never ever been an incident at those shelters. Her in-laws have never feared walking around on Grand Avenue and the property values are high in that area. Even with the shelters in that area. The Maplewood residents here are fearful of the unknown, we are all fearful of the unknown. When she built her home 18 years ago we built our home on a cul-de-sac thinking we are going to raise our children on here with 17 acres of woods around us. We didn't do our homework and didn't realize how the area had been zoned. The proposal was to open up the cul-de-sac and build a subdivision. She like everybody else in that neighborhood was pretty angry about that because all of us didn't do our homework. Ms. Cohn Madson said having the development built actually increased the value of her home and the other homes when the new homes were built because the values of the homes were more than what she had built her house for. She has had two children in this school district. One of the reasons she moved to Maplewood was because it was an inner city suburban area and the diversity that it had to offer. She said it's important and imperative for our children to be in a school district with kids of all colors and all economic levels and to live a life knowing people live with different kinds of hardships that we all have to face. She never wanted her children to live in a lily white suburb where everybody made the same amount of money. Her husband is a St. Paul school teacher and he works very hard and one of the reasons there are problems with kids who are from low- income housing is not because of low-income housing, it's because of the transient life. What this proposal would offer is the stability that these kids need so that they can be productive and get the education that they deserve. Thank you. Ms. Patricia Milody, residing at 6048 - 51st Street, Oakdale, addressed the commission. One comment she has heard so many times is about low income and affordable housing. There is a vast difference between the two. She works for the Dorothy Day Center and does financial assistance there. She sees the need for affordable housing. We have clients that come to us that are paying 60% to 80% of their income for apartment rent and they need affordable housing. Public housing is so hard to get and the waiting list is long. She sees the need for affordable housing for both families and seniors. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -28- Ms. Milody said down the road in 10 years or so she could see living at the Common Bond senior homes herself. She knows the sisters very well and if there were any concern about crime, violence, safety or any other problems, the sisters would not, in good conscience, sell the property and they would not plan to live there themselves. The sisters consider this land sacred. She worked there when the sisters were electing a new prioress. The sisters gravitated to the graveyard to pray to the ones who went before them. This is sacred land, it's their history, it's the future, it's their roots and it's their land. Ms. Anne Fosburqh, 2516 Idaho Avenue East, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She referred to a letter from Tom Ekstrand dated January 19, 2007, that says that property is zoned R- 3; she asked if that was correct? Mr. Ekstrand said yes. Ms. Fosburgh asked why we are talking about R-3H then? Mr. Ekstrand said R-3H is the land use category. There is the zoning and the land use plan and the land use plan is labeled R-3H which means high density. That is what gives it the density classification. We have three forms of density in Maplewood. Low, medium and high and the H refers to high density. It is zoned R-3 which means multiple- dwelling residential, and the R-3H is the land use designation, which means high density. Ms. Fosburgh asked if this needs a zone change then? Mr. Ekstrand said no, it is zoned correctly. Ms. Fosburgh said that wasn't the understanding we had. The traffic study has been done on Century and Larpenteur Avenues. She asked about the affect on side streets exiting onto Larpenteur Avenue. She said there are times of the day that you sit there 5 to 10 minutes and cannot even get out onto Larpenteur Avenue. As far as eliminating parking, there are anywhere from 30 to 60 cars parked on both sides of the street from Hill Murray High School. The open space has no plans for a parking lot and parking is supposed to be on the south side of the street for people using the trails and the open space. She asked how that is going to affect the parking situation? She would say she wants to see a compromise. She would go along with Tubman Family Alliance taking overthe monastery building and the40 units for seniors. Seniors are retired and would come and go from the site at different times of the day and not necessarily drive during rush hour when 3M is using Century Avenue and Hill Murray High School and Mounds Park Academy are using Larpenteur Avenue dropping and picking up students. Instead of the 50 unit town homes, she would like to see a playground for the children at the Tubman Family Alliance. That would make the neighbors happy and she is sure that would give the nuns their Tubman Family Alliance and their senior complex. Thank you. Chairperson Fischer asked staff how they see the parking for the open space if there is no parking on that stretch of Larpenteur Avenue. Would there be an area for cars to park? Mr. Ahl said the rules in the city are the same rules for everyone in the city, if there are parking restrictions the city would have to provide parking on-site. We apply the same rules to the city and its facilities as we would for those in the area. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -29- Mr. Bill Voiqt, 2520 Larpenteur Avenue East, Maplewood, addressed the commission. His driveway is right across from the Hill Murray ball diamond. He moved here 15 years ago and he is glad to live here. It's great to have Hill Murray High School here. The only thing he was disappointed in was when the acreage south of the area was developed instead of keeping it as open space. He said he could have been very selfish because he walked there with his dog and he hardly saw anybody but he didn't own the property and he couldn't control what happens to it. If we are willing to develop that area for high income housing he thinks we also need to be inclusive and also develop needs that the community has with the way the monastery is proposing. He pays taxes here, he talked to his neighbors and they are in support of this. He was not approached by anyone to sign a petition so there is an equal amount of people who are in support of this development and would welcome this development and feel very good that Maplewood is continuing to progress. Thank you. Mr. Peter Fischer, 2443 Standridge Avenue, Maplewood, addressed the commission. One question he had was that a road was proposed from the public works area going through the site and it said it might be servicing some ball diamonds there. He was curious where that was coming from because he is very familiar with the parks plan and he knows that at this current time the City of Maplewood doesn't have any designs on the recreational aspects of the MnDOT property so he wondered what was happening with that and about the road in question. Mr. Ahl said the proposal has been in front and came out of an alternative study that is being presented called the Marshlands proposal, an environmental group, and Hill Murray High School looked at that. As part of the bus garage plan, when that was rejected by the city council, that group from the area communities, the soccer associations, the city's former Park and Recreation Director, the City of Oakdale, are part of that group and continue to meet and look at those proposals. Mr. Fischer asked as of right now nothing has currently been approved by the city council for that site? Mr. Ahl said nothing has been approved other than the city council has appropriated money to investigate the Marshlands proposal and is still in the study stage and the next report will be in October of 2007. Mr. Fischer said regarding the open space parking, seeing that things are still in the conceptual stage it would be nice to find somewhere along the line some parking for the open space visitors. A program occasionally happens or a school bus comes by so there will be some needs that should be addressed. Otherwise he is in favor of this proposal. As a Maplewood resident who has lived here most of his life one of the things he was very impressed with in Maplewood is the values that we have here and he thinks the nuns at the priory are very good examples of the values of our community. The project they have put forward embraces those values, putting forward a safe, friendly environment for people to establish their lives whether they are people of trouble or people living in affordable housing. In some ways we are an extension of the east side of St. Paul and there isn't anything wrong with that. He said some of those same values apply here in Maplewood showing great concern and commitment to the values of family and people involved in the community. The sisters want to make sure that we have a strong social fabric. He thinks the sisters would not propose a development that wouldn't keep family values in mind. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -30- Mr. Fischer said when you take a look at a development that comes through the city you have similar questions and concerns. When the houses were built south of Larpenteur Avenue a lot of people had concerns about crime and other trouble. The developers were the ones that made the money when they bought and developed that land. The developers were playing to the "almighty" to earn a dollar. In this case the sisters are doing something for the "almighty" and that's a great value to this community and we should be embracing it. Thank you. Ms. Barbara Leiter, 1734 Gulden Place, Maplewood, addressed the commission. She said she has lived here for 35 years, she has three children and they went to the public schools and then to Hill Murray High School. She has two granddaughters who are going to be living here two years from now and according to their parents they will be going to Hill Murray High School. Over the years she said she had been concerned with the traffic on Larpenteur Avenue driving her children back and forth to special activities at Hill Murray High School. She is concerned because she drives on that road and she counted the number of cars that are present during school days there. She drives at night past that area and sees people are walking the roads. In her area, there are no sidewalks; there is no streetlights except at the intersection of the streets. We definitely will need to improve that area and make it safer with sidewalks and streetlights; then maybe we won't feel quite as unsafe about the conditions. She supports the nuns and what they have done. They have done a wonderful study. With all their prayers, working with the other groups and finding out what wouldn't be a match and what would be a good match she thinks this is a wonderful proposal for this site. She hopes you will consider that and not follow through with the stipulation of condition number 5. dividing the site with a road because it will be nothing but cause more problems. Thank you. Mr. Paul Holmes, Pope Associates, spoke again. When we are talking about affordable town homes, we are talking about those units being occupied by people who are at the 50-65% of median income level which is $35,000-$45,000 a year. He knows that includes people who work in his company and it includes many others who are living on a certain income level. Success in school is directly correlated to parental involvement. Mr. Holmes said good and bad parenting can happen with all income levels. It's inappropriate to say that children that live in low income or affordable housing automatically mean problems for the schools in Maplewood. He added that he has children in elementary school. Thank you. Chairperson Fischer asked if there was anybody else that wanted to voice their opinion that wishes to be heard. Nobody came forward. Chairperson Fischer closed the public hearing at 9:47 p.m. Commissioner Hess asked if the issue of sidewalks and site lighting would be addressed somewhere in the staff report? Would there be some accentuated lighting along Larpenteur Avenue as addressed by the residents who have said it's very dark and could be dangerous for pedestrians? Mr. Ahl said there is no sidewalk planned along Larpenteur Avenue although we foresee and have a policy that as we work forward through the years we try to find funds and cooperate with property owners to add sidewalks when possible. It's a provision that our engineering staff recommend sidewalks along our roadways however; we don't have a well developed sidewalk trail system in Maplewood. He doesn't foresee a sidewalk along Larpenteur Avenue for a number of years. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -31- Mr. Ahl said the policy for lighting in Maplewood has been that we light only major intersections. It is a community issue. If the city council states that someone in an area wants additional lighting that can be provided at their own expense the city can agree to that. Maplewood has a policy to not install streetlights so there are not a lot of streetlights in the city. Residents have chosen to put them in but at this point there are no plans to add lighting along Larpenteur Avenue. Commissioner Hess said last time he checked a streetlight ran about $2000 per streetlight. Mr. Ahl said the cost has gone up a little more and now runs about $2,500 per streetlight and typically you put the streetlights every 150 to 200 feet apart. Chairperson Fischer said she didn't know if anyone on the planning commission had received any telephone calls but said she hade received one telephone that was for the project and another caller that was against the project but was not included on the petition. Commissioner Pearson said he would have liked to have had information regarding any time there had been another shelter located close to a Junior or Senior High school. He would have also liked to have information regarding how many times women from the Twin Cities area needed to escape a bad situation and were referred to a hotel with a voucher instead of going to a shelter because capacity was taken up with women outside the State of Minnesota. If we are providing shelters in Minnesota he wants to make sure a woman in Minnesota gets precedence and that they are first in line for a spot at a shelter and someone out of state should have to give their spot up. He thinks we should be accommodating women from Minnesota first and it would be unconscionable to do otherwise. He feels the Tubman Family Alliance program is unfairly being painted by a broad brush because of Emma's Place. He voted for Emma's Place but he had serious reservations about that proposal. He felt that the management was totally inadequate to control it and it certainly had a very disastrous affect on the neighborhood and it's located across the street from the Maplewood Police department. Commissioner Pearson said there is a lot of anxiety out there with this proposal because people are seeing that the dispatching is no longer going to be in Maplewood and they are concerned how long responses are going to be. He said those things shouldn't affect you because you have a different type of operation. He said he has spent the last 30 years providing affordable housing, non-subsidized by anyone and he thinks they do a good job. He is also interested in the fact that the sister's original mission was education and yet there doesn't seem to be a lot of emphasis in any use of the land to continue or expand Hill Murray High School. He said these are informational things he wished he would have had but doesn't have. He has read the letter from the Bloomington Mayor and he has driven past the operation. He feels you do a good job with it but he has a concern that the building that would house the women and children that the children have adequate space outside to run and play that is totally secure and that they can't be snatched because they went outside to play. He said right now he isn't sure how he is going to vote on this proposal and he is trying to make up his mind. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -32- Commissioner Trippler moved to recommend adoption of the resolution approving a conditional use permit for a planned unit development for the Sisters of St. Benedict of St. Paul's Monastery. This PUD is for the Sisters to expand the use of their property located at 2675 Larpenteur Avenue with a 50-unit town house development' a 40-unit seniors housing apartment building; the conversion of the existing monastery building as a multi-use family-violence shelter with 37 housing units, offices and support facilities and a future monastery building. Approval is based on the findings required by ordinance and subject to the following conditions: (additions to the motion are underlined and deletions are stricken.) 1. This planned unit development shall follow the concept plans date-stamped January 11, 2007. These plans are considered concept plans because the applicant must submit design plans to the city for approval for the proposed apartments, town houses, future monastery, shelter and any other future use. Staff may approve minor changes. 2. This planned unit development does not give any approvals for Lot 1, Block 1 since this site has not been proposed for any future development and its future use is unknown. The development of this site would require a revision of this planned unit development and must comply with all city development requirements. 3. The proposed construction must be substantially started within one year of council approval or the permit shall become null and void. 4. The city council shall review this permit in one year. 5. The applicant shall agree ffi-writing to dedicate an tlie additional right-of-way for an expanded roadway system to serve if necessarv their developing property to lessen the impacts on Larpenteur and Century Avenues. The required rooElwoy system concept sholl be like th3t includod in the staff report titlod "ISO 622 Bus Facility Sito Plan Option 2 6.1 ^cro Sito." The planning and approval for this roadway extension should occur before the new monastery building is constructed. This would be a city-street-construction project. 6. The applicant must obtain all necessary and required permits from the Minnesota Department of Transportation, Ramsey County and the Ramsey-Washington Metro Watershed District. 7. The applicant must provide a right-turn lane on Century Avenue into the site, subject to MnDOTs approval. 8. The applicant shall comply with all requirements of the engineering reports by Michael Thompson dated February 22,2007, and by Charles Ahl dated March 8, 2007. 9. The applicant shall install sidewalks wherever possible alonq Larpenteur Avenue. Commissioner Desai seconded. Ayes - Desai, Fischer, Hess, Pearson, Trippler, Walton, Yarwood Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -33- Commissioner Trippler moved to approve a preliminary plat for Century Trails Commons located at 2675 Larpenteur Avenue. Approval is subject to: 1. Redesigning the public street right-of-way within the site to be 60 feet wide. 2. Complying with the applicable requirements of the engineering reports by Michael Thompson dated February 22,2007, and by Chuck Ahl dated March 8, 2007. 3. Street lights shall be installed if required by the city engineer, subject to this approval. 4. The applicant shall dedicate any additional right-of-way if required by Ramsey County and the Minnesota Department of Transportation. Commissioner Desai seconded. Ayes - Desai, Fischer, Hess, Pearson, Trippler, Walton, Yarwood Commissioner Hess was uncomfortable with condition A. 5. because of the way the language is stated. The commission discussed whether condition 5. should either be excluded, made as a separate motion, or revised in some way. Commissioner Trippler and Commissioner Desai agreed to the revisions discussed. The motion passed. This item is scheduled to go before the city council April 9, 2007. The planning commission took a recess from 10:07-10:17 p.m. VI. NEW BUSINESS a. Comprehensive Plan Update - Background Information Mr. Roberts said the Metropolitan Council is requiring all municipalities in the metro area to update their comprehensive plans by December 2008. To meet this schedule, the city will need to submit a complete plan update to the neighboring cities, the watershed district, affected school districts and to the Met Council by June 2008. Mr. Roberts said this timeline will allow for each of these agencies to review and comment on the proposed plan by December 2008. Staff expects that it will take city staff, the consultants, the planning commission and the city council up to a year to complete the revisions and to review and adopt the new plan. As such, city staff should start work on the plan update by June 2007 and have significant parts of the plan updated and ready for review by the boards and commissions by January 2008. On March 6, 2007, the planning commission discussed the comprehensive plan update process. The commission, after much discussion, asked staff for background information and date about the planning process, the Metropolitan Council requirements and the system statement for Maplewood. The commission wanted to review and better understand this information before starting their work on the comprehensive plan update. Commissioner Hess said he read through the Regional Development Framework handout and that took him a long time to get through some of that, it's a lot of reading. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -34- Chairperson Fischer said she was wondering if that was something we should be having a separate planning commission meeting about. Commissioner Hess said there are about 103 cities in the seven county metro area, 45 are selected for low income. He wondered how that selection was determined? Mr. Roberts asked what page Commissioner Hess found that on. Commissioner Hess said that is located on page 37, in the last paragraph called Local Housing Incentives Account. Mr. Roberts said those are grants that various cities apply to the met council to try and receive. If they are a participant in the Livable Communities Program, which Maplewood is, Chuck Ahl could speak to this. The grant the City of Maplewood received for the Gladstone area was a grant through the met council through one of these various funding programs. It's up to the city to put projects together and apply to the met council. The met council reviews them and awards them based on what they feel are the merits of the individual projects. Chairperson Fischer said they have some very objective criteria that they apply to because when there is free money out there you get many more applications than they will have dollars to hand out. Probably one of the reasons Maplewood received the grant money was because of all the affordable housing we have in the City of Maplewood. Commissioner Pearson said most of what they are doing with subsidizing housing being a percent of the market is not like land banking or rent banking, it just never changes as the market rates increase, so will those for the units, but they should always be that much below. Mr. Roberts said if we have a lighter planning commission meeting we can put the Regional Framework Document and the System Statement on the agenda and spend some additional time going through those two documents. Staff could spend some more time going through those and highlighting the pages, paragraphs or the points that staff feels are most important and put those in a memo. Commissioner Hess said highlighting certain ideas that seem more paramount might be more helpful to the commission. Commissioner Trippler said in the Summary Report: Determining Affordable Housing Need in the Twin Cities 2011-2020 on the last page. He was struck by the methodology that the met council used when they determine where affordable housing needs to be. To him it appeared that the Met Council was taking the wrong approach to determine where low-income housing needed to be. Commissioner Trippler asked staff if the planning commission has the ability to change the formula that the Met Council uses to determine where affordable housing is located? Mr. Roberts said he would guess we are stuck with the way formulations are calculated by the Met Council. Staff will go back through the materials and highlight some high points and bring this information back to the planning commission. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -35- VII. UNFINISHED BUSINESS None. VIII. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS None. IX. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS a. Mr. Pearson was the planning commission representative at the March 12,2007, city council meeting. Items to discuss included the Planning Commission Rules of Procedure, the Resolution of Appreciation for Michael Grover, and the request to hire a consultant for the south Maplewood study, which was all passed by the city council. The second hearing for the Comprehensive Plan Amendment for the Gladstone Plan (for the English Street and Frost Avenue area) was discussed and the city council decided to break the motion down into two motions and then it did pass. The city council took the high density out of the plan located by Gloucester Park, down by the railroad line, east of English Street and the council added the unit numbers back into other areas on the north side of Frost Avenue. It was a balanced way to move the motion along. Mr. Ahl said to further explain, the 650 units were determined not to be firm but to be a goal and the wording was highlighted to establish it as a goal. In order to remain flexible, the wording within the master plan allowed a range of units in different areas. If you went through the master plan and added up the maximum number you would far exceed the 650 unit count. The discussion really boiled down to the 180 unit proposal at the St. Paul Tourist Cabin site for the assisted living units. Mr. Ahl said some of the segments would be for memory care and they only have a single bedroom, they have no living room or kitchen and in some cases have shared restrooms, however, that would count as one unit. The question is should that count as one living unit or not. That particular complex, the developer tells the city if we were to count that as a two bedroom apartment unit would be 100 units. Should that count as 180 units off of the 650 units? That was the debate, so the flexibility was built into the plan to allow us to interpret 650 units minus 180 units then we would have 470 units left to put into the area. Now the city is allowed some flexibility to determine the number of units in developing the plan and that will allow the city to proceed with a much better product. c. Ms. Fischer will be the planning commission representative at the March 26, 2007, city council meeting. One item to discuss is the CUP for the Ramsey County Correctional Facility at 297 Century Avenue south. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 -36- e. Mr. Yarwood will be the planning commission representative at the April 9, 2007, city council meeting. Items to discuss include the St. Paul's Monastery Redevelopment (2675 Larpenteur Avenue East) for a Conditional Use Permit for Planned Unit Development and a Preliminary Plat (Century Trails Commons). f. Mr. Trippler will be the planning commission representative at the April 23, 2007, city council meeting. It is unknown at this time which items will be discussed. g. Ms. Fischer mentioned the grand opening of the Ramsey County Library at 3025 Southlawn Drive in Maplewood on Saturday, March 24, 2007. h. Mr. Yarwood reported on the Second neighborhood meeting regarding the South Maplewood Moratorium that was at the Carver School on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 at 7:00 until 9:30 p.m. Mr. Yarwood said it was interesting to see the plans Chuck Ahl outlined with the possibility of 140 units with no sewer systems to 853 units fully developed and the cost forthose houses at the low end would be $600,000 to $2 million per home to make that plan work. The higher density count would cost per unit $200,000 to $800,000. This is a wide range of density and possibilities here. He said if the Gladstone Redevelopment Plan is any indication of how this plan would go, the density number would probably end up in the middle area. Each property in south Maplewood has its own unique characteristics so each parcel might have to be done one parcel at a time. Mr. Roberts said he was atthe meeting along with Chuck Ahl, Tom, Ekstrand and about 60 other people. There was about 50-60 people at the first South Maplewood meeting. At this second meeting there were 6 discussion groups and after Chuck Ahl's presentation and the introduction of the consulting company the city has hired to do the study, we broke down into four small groups. He facilitated a meeting on Land Use and Density, there was one group about the Rural Life Style, Public Utilities, and the mayor broke the groups down into four different groups. Staff imagines there will be another meeting coming up but the project has been handed over to the consulting group to do the study. The consulting group is going to start looking at the issues that were outlined in the moratorium, the issues that the neighbors and residents brought up, and it is their charge to sort through all of that and put some recommendations together as far as zoning, land use, comprehensive plan changes, utility plans etc. to determine how that area should develop or not develop over the next 20 to 30 years. Mr. Roberts said that process has to be done by November. The consultants will be having discussions with the Met Council regarding the timing of sewer extensions, where sewers can and can't go. As Mr. Ahl pointed out, the engineers believe that south Maplewood will have sewers eventually, it may be 20 to 50 years but the septic systems there aren't going to last forever. It's in the metro urban service area and the Met Council has defined that the area will eventually have sanitary sewer. Planning Commission Minutes of 03-20-07 X. STAFF PRESENTATIONS None. XI. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 10:42 p.m. -37-