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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02/07/2005 MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION Mondav, February 7, 2005, 7:00 PM City Hall Council Chambers 1830 County Road BEast 1. Call to Order 2. Roll Call 3. Approval of Agenda 4. Approval of Minutes a. January 20, 2005 5. Public Hearings None 6. New Business Schlomka Property Concept Plan Review (Carver Avenue and Henry Lane) 7. Unfinished Business None 8. Visitor Presentations 9. Commission Presentations January 24 Council Meeting: Ms. Fischer February 14 Council Meeting: Ms. Dierich February 28 Council Meeting: Mr. Lee 10. Staff Presentations Reschedule February 21 Meeting (Presidents Day) - February 23 or February 24 11. Adjournment MINUTES OF THE MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION 1830 COUNTY ROAD BEAST, MAPLEWOOD, MINNESOTA MONDAY, FEBRUARY 7,2005 I. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Fischer called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Chairperson Lorraine Fischer Commissioner Eric Ahlness Commissioner Jeff Bartol Vice-Chairperson Tushar Desai Commissioner Mary Dierich Commissioner Michael Grover Commissioner Daniel Lee Commissioner Gary Pearson Commissioner Dale Trippler Staff Present: Present Absent Present Absent Present Present Absent Absent Present Ken Roberts, Planner Lisa Kroll, Recording Secretary Chris Cavett, Assistant City Engineer III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Chairperson Fischer requested the addition of the Gladstone tour update under Commission Presentations to be reported by Commissioner Trippler. Commissioner Dierich requested a discussion regarding building permits under Commission Presentations. Commissioner Trippler moved to approve the agenda as amended. Commissioner Bartol seconded. The motion passed. IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Ayes - Bartol, Dierich, Fischer, Grover, Trippler Approval of the planning commission minutes for January 20, 2005. Commissioner Trippler telephoned the recording secretary with several alterations to the minutes of January 20, 2005, on pages 2, 3, and 4. The recording secretary made the alterations and distributed the revised minutes to the commission prior to the meeting. Chairperson Fischer had a change to the minutes on page 5, last paragraph, last line. The wording should now read: Chairperson Fischer directed stafflo include the corrections in the next packet or would be provided provide them at the next planning commission meeting. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -2- Commissioner Trippler moved to approve the planning commission minutes for January 20, 2005, as amended. Commissioner Dierich seconded. Ayes - Dierich, Fischer, Trippler Abstentions - Bartol, Grover V. PUBLIC HEARING None. VI. NEW BUSINESS a. Schlomka Property Concept Plan Review (Carver Avenue and Henry Lane) Mr. Roberts said Mr. Bruce Pankonin, representing Rottlund homes, is asking the planning commission to provide preliminary comments about a proposed senior housing development. He has prepared a preliminary site plan that shows 386 housing units (in four different types of housing) for persons aged 55 and over. This development would be on 70+ acres of land that is south of Carver Avenue and west of Henry Lane known as the Schlomka property. A homeowner's association would own and maintain the common areas. A motion isn't necessary but staff requests that the planning commission discuss the proposed preliminary plan regarding the land use plan change, PUD and site plan during the planning commission meeting this evening. Commissioner Trippler said there are two residents shown on the plans on the northeast corner that appear not to be part of this development. He asked if the two homes would remain despite the fact they are so close to this proposed development? Mr. Roberts said yes the two homes would remain. Commissioner Trippler said he noticed a Williams pipeline marker south of the area, across Carver Avenue, west of the two existing homes. He asked if anybody looked at the pipeline and wondered how the pipeline could change the look of the proposed development? Mr. Roberts drew a red line on the map where he remembered the Williams pipeline to be located and said staff told the developer they must have the area surveyed so the developer is aware of the importance of the pipeline in the area when planning the final layout. Commissioner Trippler asked if the developer could build a structure over the pipeline? Mr. Roberts said no, the code states that no new structure can be built at least 100 feet from a pipeline. Commissioner Trippler said that fact could change the whole configuration of the development for the northern property. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -3- Commissioner Trippler asked if there was an outlet to the wetland in the middle of the northern development? Mr. Roberts said Mr. Cavett mentioned the water runs to Fish Creek in someway but he didn't know if there was a formal outlet or if there had been a formal delineation yet. Commissioner Trippler asked staff if the fire and police departments had seen these preliminary plans yet? Mr. Roberts said yes. Commissioner Trippler asked staff if the fire or police departments had concerns regarding the length of the dead end street as well as the density proposed? Mr. Roberts said the only concern was for the number of emergency medical calls they could receive along with the distance from the fire station to this area. However, the emergency personnel weren't very concerned about the length of the dead end street. Commissioner Trippler said he is concerned that someone living on the western side of this area would need medical help and could take emergency personnel 15 minutes or more to get to the home. Commissioner Trippler said the freeway noise is quite substantial. He asked staff if the developer had mentioned anything about noise barriers or how they would deal with the freeway noise. Mr. Roberts said staff mentioned the noise factor to the developer at one of their meetings. The developer is aware of the problem and aware that the city knows about the noise problem. The developer said they could incorporate construction methods to help meet the noise standards. This is another reason why the city staff recommended an EAW report. Commissioner Trippler said on the northern quadrant there is a building off the cul-de-sac on Heights Avenue and it appears the two buildings would have to be built on the edge of the wetland. He asked if there was a wetland setback for this? Mr. Roberts said if the pond shown on the plan becomes a man-made pond there would be no setback. The existing wetland would be where the buffer and the "no disturb area" would be required. Until the city has a final delineation and final design he doesn't want to speculate, but there could be a 1 0-to-50 foot buffer. Commissioner Trippler said he assumed in order to create the pond the developer would have to fill in the wetland. Mr. Roberts said that's something the developer needs to be aware of however, he hoped that wasn't what the developer intended. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -4- Commissioner Dierich said she drove the area to see where people would access Hwy 494 which came to 2 miles if you take the Sterling/Bailey Road access to the actual freeway entrance. If you drive around Carver Avenue it comes to 1.5 miles. Commissioner Dierich and Mr. Roberts have spoken on the telephone regarding traffic conditions and Carver Avenue being so curvy. She said if this ends up being a senior's project there may not be a traffic issue with additional people driving from the area to get to work. But if this is a 55 years and older development, traffic could be an issue because many people 55 years of age and older still work. Regarding the Carver Avenue access, she said there is no way you can make it down the hill in less than 15 minutes. Traffic is backed up to McKnight Road and sometimes farther. She asked if staff could mention how the city planned to address the traffic issue and the problems with the roads being unable to accommodate 1 % times more cars than it currently has? Mr. Roberts said because the developer hasn't gotten to that level of detail yet, they can't discuss that. Commissioner Dierich asked why the police and fire personnel haven't said anything about the issue of traffic regarding this proposed development in the area? Mr. Roberts said it's not that the emergency personnel aren't concerned about the traffic; it's just that they haven't gotten to that level of detail yet. Commissioner Dierich said traffic is a big piece of the picture that she needs to understand. This makes a huge impact regarding whether this plan gets approved for R-1, R-2 or R-3 zoning. The traffic is already bad in the area and she is reluctant to make the traffic problem worse. Commissioner Dierich said she assumed the reason this proposal is for senior housing only was because the developer received money to build senior housing. She asked how the City of Maplewood was sitting for senior housing. She believes the city needs housing forthe younger generation that cannot afford the high price of homes. Mr. Roberts said the developer didn't get any money from the City of Maplewood. As far as he knows the developer is aware there is a market for mixed styles of senior housing. Regarding housing for the younger generation, the city keeps hearing from developers that by creating senior housing this will allow seniors to move out of their single family homes allowing available housing for the younger generation to purchase. Commissioner Dierich believes it's a bad policy to isolate this area to a senior's only development and would like to see this as a mixed housing area. Young people in their twenties cannot afford the homes that are 800 to 1,200 square feet because they don't have the down payment that is needed. They may be able to afford the smaller housing in this proposed development. Commissioner Dierich would like to see Maplewood keep the productive workers in the city and not force them to move out to the surrounding suburbs where the homes would be less expensive. She asked if Chris Cavett could speak regarding the rainwater gardens and how the water would be handled off site without further polluting Fish Creek. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -5- Chris Cavett said this is just another reason the city is requiring the EAW report. The city is concerned about the grades on the site because of the topography. The developer will have to treat, pre-treat and detain water to regulate flows. Ultimately the water will go into the Fish Creek and then onto the Mississippi River. They will have to look at infiltration requirements like what was used at Legacy Village and the EAW report will help identify the treatments that are necessary. Commissioner Dierich said knowing that piece of land, the topography of the land, and the rolling hills, she doesn't know how this development can be built here. In her mind she thinks this development would look like the development in Inver Grove Heights on South Street where the houses are perched on the side of hills. Mr. Roberts said keep in mind that the developer hasn't done a grading plan yet. Commissioner Dierich said she understands there hasn't been a grading plan done yet but she assumed the city wouldn't allow the developer to take the tops off the hills to build this development. Mr. Roberts said that would depend. Chairperson Fischer asked when it was assumed that these areas would have on-site sewer systems for the larger lot sizes, what was the rationale that necessitated the on-site sewer system designation for this area of south Maplewood? Mr. Roberts said as part of the zoning study a few years ago with the R-1 (R) zoning, the city updated the comprehensive sewer plan and had a consultant look at this area to see what it would take to get sanitary sewer in and if it would be possible for the area south of Carver Avenue to have sanitary sewer on both sides of the freeway. This was going to be very difficult to extend the sewer because of the topography and Fish Creek. The city didn't see a need to do that. The city guessed it may make more sense to do this on the west side of the freeway but the only reason the sewer would go in would be if a developer would come forward to put it in. The city wasn't going to extend the sewer because there weren't that many homes to serve and it was going to be very expensive. So the city didn't allow future lot splits and half acre lots had to be at the two acre minimum to ensure things wouldn't get too crowded without sewer systems. Nowa developer is willing to come in and pay for the sewer to be put in which changes everything. Chairperson Fischer asked what the density was at New Century and how many units there were? Mr. Roberts said it's about 50-55 acres and he guesses about 180-200 units. Chairperson Fischer said basically that equals 4-units per acre which is the standard R-1 density. Commissioner Grover said based on the staff report, it appears there is some concern regarding the CUP and the PUD based on the small lot size and the setbacks. He's asked whether or not staff agreed that the PUD application would meet these requirements? Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -6- Mr. Roberts said that has yet to be determined. By stating that in the report alerted everybody working on this project because of the items listed this requiresa PUD application. Whether or not it will meet the criteria. It has the potential to but that's up to the developer to show the city that it meets the criteria and it would be a superior development. If you compare it to a cookie cutter layout without an innovative design or setbacks, he thinks this one has the potential to be better. The city is sort of grasping at straws so to speak at this point without the level of detail for this concept plan review. Chairperson Fischer said one reason for using a PUD rather than standard platting is to have more control over what goes on the site, especially when you have an environmentally sensitive area. Mr. Roberts said another reason to use a PUD is to reduce setbacks, reduce right of ways, or have private driveways that the code normally wouldn't allow. It helps to show you are going to protect the trees and the slopes and he thinks that is the intent of the developer but the city and the developer aren't at that level yet. Commissioner Dierich said R-1 (R) zoning would put this development at 35 homes without sewer and water. She discussed with staff on the telephone that R-1 zoning would equal around 210 homes with sewer and water depending on the topography. R-2 zoning would equal 300 homes and R-3 zoning would equal 386 homes as proposed by the developer assuming they have sewer and water. She asked ifunder the R-1 zoning could the homes be attached under a PUD? Mr. Roberts said you could and a PUD can do various things with land uses. Commissioner Dierich wants to be clear that the developer is asking forthe R-3zoning forthe density verses the ability to attach the homes. Mr. Roberts said correct. Commissioner Bartol said less than a year ago there was a study done relative to the amount of population this area could handle. He said south Maplewood can only handle so much sewer and water. He asked if the city adjusts the zoning from R-1, R-2 or R-3, who would pay for the additional requirements for the sewer and water requirements? Mr. Roberts said the developer would pay for that. Commissioner Bartol said it's possible that the developer is acknowledging those costs and is looking to recover the investment for the sewer and water made by using higher density and targeting a senior development for a denser population. Commissioner Bartol said he likes the idea of a senior development because those drivers would not contribute to the typical rush hour traffic that you might see if this was a mixed single family housing development. Commissioner Bartol said this is a good plan and good design and he isn't troubled about the distance from the dead end road of the southwest corner up to the fire department or the distance to the nearest hospital. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -7- Commissioner Bartol said he can't imagine this proposal could be any worse than any other development. He's concerned about the freeway noise level and isn't sure he would want to live this close to the highway, but on the other hand it provides a variety of senior housing in different price ranges. He would encourage the developer to move forward with this challenging proposal regarding the land, drainage, grading, sewer and water. Commissioner Trippler said personally he's not familiar with this area of south Maplewood but when driving around the area his concern was there are no grocery stores, banks, service stores, etc. Since this is going to be a senior housing development he wondered where these people would go to do business. Certainly there won't be anything within walking distance for the residents to walk to. Mr. Roberts said he would agree. The closest locations for people to run errands or conduct business would be in the Sun Ray shopping center in St. Paul or off Valley Creek Road in Woodbury. Commissioner Dierich said the other problem is that there is no bus transportation service down to that area of Maplewood. Mr. Roberts said not yet, but that could change. Commissioner Trippler said this kind of density seems very out of place with everything else around it. He asked where the closest location with density like this was? Mr. Roberts said about 2-to-3 miles away around Londin Lane and McKnight Road and Lower Aflon Road by the Holiday gas station. Chairperson Fischer said the only two neighborhoods that don't have higher density than R-1 zoning are the two southern tip neighborhoods. Everything else in the City of Maplewood has a mix of housing densities. Commissioner Dierich said she is struggling with this concept plan because this is in her neighborhood. Carver Park is close but because of the hills it would be difficult for the seniors to walk the park. Housing for people 55 and over could mean people still work and drive to work which could increase the traffic. This is a very low density neighborhood and is a neighborhood with a lot of money. The newer homes have money but the older homes do not have a lot of money. If you put another 3000 cars on the road in addition to the 2000 cars already on these roads, the roads will need to be improved, which means somebody is going to be taxed for road improvements. She wondered how the homes along Carver Avenue and Century Avenue would be able to stay there. Commissioner Dierich said she knows this proposed development would bring tax money in but the people without a lot of money will be taxed on the large acreage lots and will be assessed by the foot, which is something the city needs to think about. Commissioner Dierich said traffic is already a huge problem and the improvements are going to be a problem. This not only impacts the immediate area but everything else around it. Just because Woodbury put high density housing at the edge of their city does Maplewood need to change the look and feel of a whole neighborhood that they purposely zoned low density. The city worked to protect the neighborhood from having this look and she is very concerned how it would change the look of the neighborhood. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -8- Commissioner Trippler guessed the less expensive homes along Carver Avenue wouldn't be able to pay their taxes or the assessments when the roads needed to be redone because with additional 3000 cars on the road the roads would need to be redone. Chairperson Fischer asked the applicant to address the commission. Mr. Bruce Pankonin, representing Rottlund Homes, 3065 Centre Point Drive, Roseville, addressed the commission. He thanked Mr. Roberts for his concise planning report. He said they are here tonight to gain insight and information from the planning commission before moving forward with this proposal. The recommendation to do the EAW report is good advice for them because they don't want to guess on issues such as the amount of runoff, rain gardens, retention and detention, and the amount of traffic. They are committed to start this study with feedback from the planning commission. They envision an active adult community for this area for people 55 and over. Here are some interesting demographics happening today. Only 24% of the population currently represents the family of Mom, Dad, and children. Families with children will be the slowest growing segment of the housing industry in the next 10 years which will be a concern of the school districts because they have a large infrastructure bought and paid for and districts will be looking for money. There is going to be an increasing number of non-traditional families such as single adults. By 201 0 single person households will nearly equal the number of married with children households and single people and married couples without children will dominate household growth. Baby boomers born between 1946 and 1964 will drive 50% of the household growth. Rottlund Homes is proposing senior housing and this will free up single family homes for the younger generation of people wanting to live in Maplewood. The density proposed for the 70 acre parcel is 5.5 dwellings per acre which may seem high to some people or it may seem low. Rottlund Homes is starting with the general concept plan and will move onto more specifics with a final plan. The market tells Rottlund Homes that city's need this type of alternative life style housing which is the reason they are going forward with the concept plan. Commissioner Trippler said when putting the final plan together he would recommend that the applicant consider walkways, paths, and exercise facilities for people that live in this development. Anyone that knows this area will realize it's an extremely hilly terrain and could be very difficult for some people to get around. He said it may be a good idea to incorporate a bridge on the site to get back and forth. Mr. Pankonin said Commissioner Trippler's comment is well taken and they typically put things like that in their plan, unfortunately they aren't at that level of detail in this proposal yet. Commissioner Dierich asked Mr. Pankonin if he had an idea of what the units would look like. Mr. Pankonin showed a preliminary plan on the screen of other units they have built in another city. He said although the design is not final he showed a sample of the club house, garden units, garden townhomes (which are two stories), and detached townhomes (that are one story) could look like. He didn't have a sample of what the senior condominium would look like yet but said it would probably be a three-story building with underground parking. Commissioner Trippler asked if he had a price range for the variety of senior housing? Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -9- Mr. Pankonin said no he didn't. Because they haven't designed the units yet and don't know what the development costs are going to be or what the final density would be at this time, it wouldn't be fair to give a price. He guesses somewhere between the $250,000 and the $300,000 range. Commissioner Grover asked in terms of the overall unit numbers how flexible is Rottlund Homes? Mr. Pankonin said from the marketing standpoint there are 50 units per product type. With the 50 units per product type Rottlund Homes is able to develop a model home center, staff it with professional sales agents and put it in the metro wide advertising. They would have to have at least 50 units and there are four product types, which would be a minimum of 200 housing units. There are other considerations that go into the equation such as the cost of the land and the development costs. The physical impact would be the structures on the property and how it impacts the land. This is how they arrived at 386 housing units. Chairperson Fischer asked the developer with the pipeline setback and the wetland setback, could you still make this work with the current set of figures or would you be looking for a higher density? Mr. Pankonin said they are comfortable with the proposed density given the information they have now but they will be getting more exact detailed information to make the final plan. Commissioner Dierich asked Mr. Pankonin if he planned on having meetings with the neighbors to ask for their input before going forward with the building? Mr. Pankonin said yes they want to be part of the process therefore; they would like to have a neighborhood meeting at some time. He would be looking for names and addresses of residents or heads of association groups to send a mailing out inviting people to a convenient location in southern part of Maplewood. They would like to clearly explain to the neighbors what Rottlund Home's intention and plan is before the rumor mill starts and people get incorrect information. Mr. Pankonin said he welcomes the planning commission's comments and if anybody wants to talk to him about the development or has any further questions or concerns including the public he can be reached at Rottlund Home's office at his direct line at 651-638-0591 or on his cell phone at 612-363-6461. He thanked the staff and planning commission for their time. Commissioner Grover asked staff typically how long an EAW report takes to get done? Mr. Roberts said he has heard 90 to 120 days to prepare so he anticipates this proposal could come back to the planning commission in July or August of 2005. VII. UNFINISHED BUSINESS None. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -10- VIII. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS None. IX. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS a. Ms. Fischer was the planning commission representative at the January 24, 2005, city council meeting. The only planning commission item to discuss was the Maplewood Imports Auto Center at 2450 Maplewood Drive, which passed ayes all. The 2004 Planning Commission Annual Report and rules of Procedure were also on the Consent Agenda. b. Ms. Dierich will be the planning commission representative at the February 14, 2005, city council meeting. The only planning commission item to discuss is the Public Works Expansion at 1902 County Road BEast. c. Mr. Lee will be the planning commission representative at the February 28, 2005, city council meeting. However, Mr. Roberts wasn't sure there would be any planning commission items to discuss at the city council meeting. d. Gladstone Update Commissioner Trippler gave an update on the Gladstone tour and public meeting. He said there was a Gladstone tour on Saturday, January 26, 2005, where about 30 people took a bus tour and visited Burnsville, Richfield, St. Louis Park, Hopkins, Golden Valley, ending the tour in Little Canada. Commissioner Trippler said then there was a public meeting at the Maplewood Community Center on Monday, January 29, 2005. Almost the whole evening was devoted to groups of three or four people sitting at each table to discuss what things need to stay in the Gladstone Area and what things people would like to see removed in the Gladstone area. Also the consultants asked why people like certain things in the Gladstone area and why they didn't like certain things. Commissioner Trippler said the next scheduled Gladstone Task Force meeting is on Thursday, February 17, 2005. e. Building Permits Commissioner Dierich said she has seen several homes in south Maplewood that are still unfinished and some are still in the framing stages. She believed whomever buys these homes would be buying homes that have been exposed to the elements because they have been under construction for so long. Commissioner Dierich wanted stafflo check into what could be done to ensure that building permits are completed before a certain time period. This would be for the protection of the future home buyers as well as protection for the neighbors that have to look at the construction taking so long to complete. Planning Commission Minutes of 02-07-05 -11- Commissioner Dierich said there are some homes with occupants living there that have no siding on the house. She wondered how the homeowner could get a certificate of occupancy to live in the home without having any siding on the home or the home being complete. Mr. Roberts said the occupants may be in the home without a certificate of occupancy. The other thing is a building permit is typically good for 180 days as long as you keep doing some type of work to keep the building permit valid. He believes most buyers know enough to get a home inspection before they buy the home which is good protection for the home buyer. Mr. Roberts told Ms. Dierich if she knows certain streets or addresses where these problems are occurring staff could pass this information onto the building inspectors and they could check into the situation. Commissioner Dierich said several of the residents in south Maplewood have brought these problems to her attention and said they have called the police department to complain about these problems and were told there was nothing they could do about it. The City of Woodbury doesn't allow building permits to drag on and remain incomplete after one year and she believed Maplewood should require people to come before the city to renew their permit in a timely manner and not allow homes to remain in this condition for this long. This makes for an unsafe home and an unsightly manner for the neighbors who have to look at it. X. STAFF PRESENTATIONS a. Reschedule Monday, February 21, 2005, Planning Commission Meeting because of President's Day The decision was to reschedule the Planning Commission meeting from Monday, February 21,2005, to Wednesday, February 23,2005, because of the President's Day holiday. XI. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.