HomeMy WebLinkAbout12/06/1999MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION
Monday, December 6, 1999, 7:00 PM
City Hall Council Chambers
1830 County Road B East
1. Call to Order
2. Roll Call
3. Approval of Minutes
a. November 1, 1999
4. Approval of Agenda
5. Public Hearing
a. 1999 Comprehensive Plan Update
6. New Business
a. Mogren Brothers Landscaping Conditional Use Permit (west of 2599 White Bear Avenue)
7. Visitor Presentations
8. Commission Presentations
a. November 8 Council Meeting: Mr. Pearson
b. November 22 Council Meeting: Mr. Frost
c. December 13 Council Meeting: Mr. Seeber
d. December 27 Council Meeting: Mr. Trippler
9. Staff Presentations
a. White Bear Avenue Corridor Study Update
,10. Adjournment
MINUTES OF THE MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION
1830 COUNTY ROAD B EAST, MAPLEWOOD, MINNESOTA
DECEMBER 6, 1999
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Fischer called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Commissioner Lorraine Fischer
Commissioner Jack Frost
Commissioner Matt Ledvina
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Present
Present
Present
Paul Mueller Present
Gary Pearson Present
William Rossbach Present
Michael Seeber Absent
Milo Thompson Present
Dale Trippler Present
III.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. November 1, 1999
Commissioner Frost moved approval of the minutes of November 1, 1999.
Commissioner Rossbach seconded. Ayes--Fischer, Frost, Mueller,
Pearson, Rossbach, Thompson, Trippler
Abstain--Ledvina
The motion passed.
IV. APPROVAL OFAGENDA
Commissioner Frost moved amending the agenda to switch Item 6. New Business (Mogren Brothers
Landscaping Conditional Use Permit) before Item 5. Public Hearing (1999 Comprehensive Plan
Update). Chairperson Fischer asked if the applicant for the new business item was present.
Commissioner Thompson said he had advised an individual of the agenda as submitted and, for that
reason, would vote against a change. Melinda Coleman, director of community development, advised
that the applicant was present and they appreciated the opportunity of being considered before the
public hearing item.
Commissioner Rossbach seconded.
Commissioner Rossbach asked Commissioner Thompson whom he had advised. Mr. Thompson
preferred not to give the individual's name but said it was a Maplewood citizen who had a serious
concern. The individual was encouraged by Mr. Thompson to attend the meeting. Chairperson
Fischer asked staff for some input on how this situation should be handled. Ken Roberts, associate
planner offered two alternatives: (1) take testimony, table the action, review the comprehensive plan
and then return to the CUP, or (2) follow the agenda as published. Chairperson Fischer suggested
going with the agenda as published and then, at 7:30 p.m., table Item 5, hear Item 6, and then return
to Item 5.
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Commissioner Rossbach felt it was inappropriate to change the agenda since one of the commission
members had advised someone specifically on the agenda. Commissioner Frost pointed out that the
agenda did not include a scheduled time for each specific item, therefore an interested person should
be at the meeting at 7 p.m. It would be impossible to say how long the first five items would take. He
asked if Commissioner Thompson had given the individual a time, i.e. 7:30 p.m. Mr. Thompson said
that was "correct."
Commissioner Frost withdrew his motion. Commissioner Rossbach withdrew the second.
Commissioner Rossbach moved approval of the agenda as submitted.
Commissioner Pearson seconded.
Ayes--all
The motion passed.
V. PUBLIC HEARING
1999 Comprehensive Plan Update
Ken Roberts, associate planner, summarized the staff report. He explained that the planning
commission always holds a public hearing when there is an amendment to the comprehensive
plan, whether it is just a map change for a specific site or, as in this case, updating the whole
document. Chairperson Fischer hoped that the commissioners have looked at the plan
thoroughly to see if their concerns were interpreted by staff as they intended. She also said this
is the time to see if anything had "fallen between the cracks" because the update was reviewed
piece by piece.
Commissioner Rossbach suggested that, after testimony was taken from the public, each
commissioner, from left to right, should take a turn to express his/her concerns about the
update. Chairperson Fischer asked for input from the commission as to whether their prior
questions or directions to staff had been reflected correctly in this document.
Commissioner Mueller wasn't sure if the existing on-street bikeway was correctly indicated for
his area on the bikeways/trails plan on page 128. He mentioned a white-lined biking area along
Roselawn from 35E to Highway 61 that is not shown. Ken Haider, public works director, said
many of the county roads have the shoulder striped but it is not designated as a bikeway. There
definitely is a separation created by the white line--vehicles are not suppose to cross
it--therefore it is hopefully safer for pedestrians.
Commissioner Rossbach asked if the city had a plan to track wells in the city (page 135).
Mr. Haider said the city is not planning on tracking wells but is going to get a "much more refined
system on septic systems implemented in the near future." Mr. Rossbach also inquired if
Maplewood had a plan to help pay for the capping of wells. Mr. Haider said the watershed
district had a grant program that is still ongoing.
Chairperson Fischer commented that some parts of the plan are more comprehensive and
detailed than others. She felt, as they were looking at the new section of the plan, it "might
almost look more like goals and objectives than a comprehensive plan." She thought this might
partially be because a lot of what might be done is advocated to the watershed districts, etc.
Ms. Fischer didn't think it would be inappropriate to specify information to the plan to make it
"user friendly." She would like information included on the different classes of wetlands.
Commissioner Rossbach thought this would be a good idea.
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Mr. Rossbach observed that the maps did not have street names. Ms. Fischer said the previous
maps did have some streets listed and only showed the colors for the uses that were pertinent
for the given planning neighborhood. Mr. Rossbach said an area of double dwellings northwest
of the intersection of Hazelwood and Gervais (on page 42) should be single-family residences.
He questioned the classification of the four lots that are one block north of 11th Street on Ariel,
(north of the new residential development and the open space). Melinda Coleman, director of
community development, confirmed that these lots also were open space all the way to Ariel
Street.
Ken Roberts verified that the townhomes located off White Bear Avenue, south of Radatz, were
designated high density. Mr. Rossbach pointed out that the area being developed as Cardinal
Pointe on Hazelwood, north of Beam Avenue, is shown as light manufacturing. Mr. Roberts said
this would be changed to high density. The area across the street from Cardinal Pointe, where
there are now some single-family homes, is expected to be commercial. There are many 40-
foot lots here so this area appears black on the map.
Mr. Rossbach noted that (page 41) the long lot on Beam Avenue is shown as double dwelling.
Mr. Roberts confirmed that this is correct on the current plan. Commissioner Rossbach
questioned the appropriateness of that designation in this residential neighborhood. Mr. Roberts
said the lot had an R-2 zoning on the front half, the same as the double dwellings next door.
He said a single home (as was previously started on this lot) is a permitted use in an R-2 zone.
Mr. Rossbach felt it would be appropriate to take the circles off the areas that were to be
improved with referendum funding (page 116) since the referendum did not pass.
Commissioner Frost asked if the small lots (page 41) behind the church on Lydia, behind Ariel
Street, the multi-family homes and the cottages, were R1S. Mr. Roberts said he was correct.
Mr. Frost thought Policy 4 in the Water Resources Management Plan (page 132) should state
that ponds are required to be designed to the nationwide urban runoff program criteria for 50
percent phosphorous removal or the plans will not be approved. Mr. Frost asked how water
quality was being improved by dumping storm water runoff into lakes, etc. (Policy 2 on page
133). Mr. Haider said "obviously there would be more discretion applied" but this is basically
what is being done and will continue. Mr. Frost thought it would be better to treat the runoff
before it is dumped into the lakes and wetlands. Mr. Frost suggested saying something in the
condition about pretreating water that is to be stored in high quality wetlands and lakes. He also
advised that the erosion control and wetland ordinance should be included in the plan.
Chairperson Fischer recommended referencing the flood plain ordinance.
Commissioner Frost said there would be people at the Metropolitan Council who would be
looking at how the city was managing its septic tank policies. He thought, at some time, it will be
necessary to outline a procedure on reviewing permits, construction, etc.
Chairperson Fischer asked if the same criteria is used by the engineers in each of the four
groups that are associated with our goals and policies for water resources management in
Maplewood. Mr. Haider said we have four watershed districts in Maplewood, two of which have
no plan established and therefore no requirements in certain parts of the city. Because
Ramsey-Washington Metro covers 90 percent of the city, Maplewood usually follows their
requirements. He said Ms. Fischer was correct in her assertion that this was a very generalized
approach. It is in the comprehensive land use plan that there is a separate storm water
management document that is going to be created by the city in the next year that will be a
"stand alone" document with much more detail. That is why, according to Mr. Haider, the
comprehensive plan is general.
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Ms. Fischer said she would hope that more restrictive measures would be used in areas where
there are special needs in the city that require them. Mr. Haider said this document would not
preclude the city from doing the "right thing." Chairperson Fischer felt that, if the city "was being
silent,", it could be assumed that those are the qualifications. He felt the intention was to make
this useful for a number of years until the districts that are organizing at the present time have
plans and their own restrictions. Ms. Fischer wondered if the city has any say in the process
and can approve these district plans. Mr. Haider said the city does have input. He pointed out
that the watershed district is a separate government entity and could enforce a requirement,
even if the city did not agree. Likewise, the city can go beyond what the watershed requires
and enforce that.
Chairperson Fischer requested that the figure and page number be included in the data that
refers to charts, etc. that are more than a couple pages away. She questioned if a statement
should be made that Maplewood will be responsible for doing the inspection and enforcement of
the erosion and sediment control standards. Mr. Haider said attaching our ordinance should be
adequate. Ms. Fischer asked if staff had checked on the amount of acreage and number of
employees at 3M (page 6). Mr. Roberts answered that the acreage had not changed but he was
not sure about the number of employees.
Chairperson Fischer pointed out that on the Hillside neighborhood map (page 45) only the area
where the actual buildings are located on the Priory site are designated high density.
Mr. Roberts said the GIS mapping follows property lines. Ms. Fischer emphasized that this
should be figured manually and reflected accurately on the appropriate chart (page 35 or 36).
Ms. Fischer asked that the color designation for the townhouses on Holloway and to the west
side of Beebe Road, where the highest designation is now shown while the remainder of the
townhouses are at medium density, be checked and changed to reflect the correct density.
Mr. Roberts mentioned that the townhouse to the east has the ponding area which makes it
larger. According to Ms. Fischer, two cemeteries are not shown on the Hillside area map--one
on the Priory land and one on the county land. Mr. Roberts said that with the GIS limitations,
the Priory parcel cannot be split into different designations but the other cemetery could be
shown in the box in the northwest corner of the county property, along White Bear Avenue,
south of the trail. The duplex on the south side of Ripley, approximately where Furness meets
Ripley, is not shown.
Chairperson Fischer noted that Archer Heights has a new name and asked that it be corrected
on page 56. The fourth paragraph under Housing Affordability on page 60 should show that as
of 1999 Maplewood was exceeding benchmarks.
Chairperson Fischer asked if anyone objected to tabling this item so that the Mogren Brothers conditional
use permit request could be considered.
Commissioner Rossbach moved that the 1999 Comprehensive Plan Update be tabled until after
consideration of the Mogren Brothers Landscaping Conditional Use Permit application.
Commissioner Frost seconded.
Ayes--all
The motion passed.
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VI. New Business
A. Mogren Brothers Landscaping Conditional Use Permit (West of 2599 White Bear Avenue)
Ken Roberts, associate planner, presented the staff report. Commissioner Thompson was
concerned that the planning commission was being asked to approve something that already
has taken place. Melinda Coleman, director of community development, thought it was a
question of trying to work with business owners to "get them settled into something." She said it
has taken a couple months to get Mr. Mogren to supply the city with a plan and submit an
application. Rather than "do an enforcement," Ms. Coleman said they try to "come to a
resolution that the city and the property owner can work with." Mr. Thompson felt this was a
condition of almost a couple years, rather than a couple months. Staff disagreed and said it was
only since the new development on the east side of White Bear Avenue. Staff did not feel that
snow storage constitutes usage that takes approval.
Chairperson Fischer asked if the requirement to submit a feasibility plan had been met.
Mr. Roberts thought the concern was that the city did not want to create some permanent
property lines and create landlocked parcels without an overall plat for the whole property where
the storage is located. He said this proposal is for a somewhat temporary use.
Ken Roberts confirmed that there was access to this property on the west side of the car wash
that is not owned by the car wash. Commissioner Rossbach recalled that every construction
site in the city is required to have a gravel entrance area and he thought an improved entrance
should also be required for this property. Ms. Coleman said this was a "legitimate comment."
Mr. Rossbach thought, since this lot has the required 60 feet of frontage on County Road C,
screening should be required as if the lot were being developed for something other than a
storage lot. Mr. Roberts said the design review board would want to consider that when they
review the screening plan.
Commissioner Thompson wondered if the hours of operation were compatible with a snow-
removal operation. He said "it doesn't seem practical and I am interested in a practical
situation." Mr. Thompson thought if it was going to be used for snow removal this should be
recognized. He said an additional easement on the eastern edge of the lot had not been
designated or discussed. Mr. Roberts said this apparently is a vacant grass lot between the
Hesley and Meshbesher businesses. He observed that access to this lot is being obtained by
using the parking lot of a commercial property on White Bear Avenue as an entrance and exit.
He suggested that the applicant be asked if he had a legal arrangement for use of this entrance.
Mr. Roberts also noted that if there are violations of the noise ordinance, the police department
can be called or the city can schedule a review sooner.
Mr. Roberts said that the access to the property off County Road C is paved and looks like it is
part of the car wash property. However, it is not part of the car wash. Commissioner Trippler
said he was impressed by the typed comment letter from David Hesley. He did not see how the
issues of contaminated snow and the possibility of having oil and gas run into the adjacent
wetland were addressed in the staff recommendations. Mr. Trippler was also concerned about
the issue of the appearance of the "junkyard." Mr. Roberts didn't think there had been storage,
except for maybe a vehicle or two, on this site eighteen months ago, only this summer. He said
today was the first time he had looked at it. Mr. Roberts said city ordinances do not specifically
address where snow from plowing operations can be stored.
Commissioner Rossbach noted that the city puts snow into a wetland at the corner of County
Road D and Hazelwood Avenue. He acknowledged that there is probably a lack of space to
store snow and thought it might be something the planning commission would want to give
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consideration to in the upcoming year. Commissioner Thompson felt it was questionable
whether this would depreciate other properties. He commented that a front-end loader was
taken down close to the "storm-water ditch" and a large berm was created in what he thought
was wetland area. He thought this was an issue as were Numbers 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the findings
in the conditional use permit resolution.
Bruce Mogren and Robert Mogren, the applicants, were present. Mr. Mogren said this property
has been used intermittently for this type of use for many years. The property on White Bear
Avenue where Mogren Landscaping has operated for over 25 years has been sold so this site
was the logical place to move the operation. Bruce Mogren presented a screening plan that
shows a fairly solid row of pine trees, six to eight feet high and 15 feet on center.
Bruce Mogren agreed that an improved access was a legitimate request and they were willing to
work with the city on this. Robert Mogren said the only snow deposited here is from the court
house and Rainbow Food on White Bear Avenue. Therefore, this snow will run into the same
drainage as if it were left on the original sites. Bruce Mogren said Mogrens own the lot between
Hesley and the attorney office and they share a curb cut with Hesley.
Bob Mogren said they would be willing to work with the hours of operation as stated. Melinda
Coleman thought it was necessary to leave the 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. hours as a safety valve for the
people who live to the northwest. Bruce Mogren asked if an exception could be made on those
relatively few occasions when there is an unusually large amount of snowfall. Commissioner
Thompson was concerned about the strong possibility they would be driving through a parking
lot if they used the property between 7 and 7. He claimed the existing curb cut is entirely on the
northern piece of property and is not split equally on the line of the two properties. Ken Roberts
said there is a curb cut in the middle of Hesley's parking lot but the driveway is on the line. It
was determined that Mr. Mogren and Mr. Thompson were talking about two different drives.
Mr. Roberts said that with the proposed screening plan the only access would be from County
Road C. If another access is intended, Mr. Roberts said it needs to be clarified before this is
submitted to the city council. Commissioner Mueller asked for clarification on where the
equipment parking spot would be. Mr. B. Mogren assured the commission that the storage area
would not be in the wetland buffer area. They were open to suggestions as to how this buffer
area could be delineated so that nothing would be stored in it. R. Mogren offered to measure it
off and put up posts.
Commissioner Pearson had sympathy for the resident of 1876 County Road C East if trucks
were going to be coming in and out of the nearby access to this site while doing snow removal.
He pointed out that the businesses on White Bear Avenue would be closed during the possible
hours of snow removal and traffic is much less on White Bear during this time. He thought the
logical place to ingress and egress for snow purposes, outside the normal operation hours,
would be from the lot owned by Mogren between Hesley and Meshbesher. R. Mogren said
most of the equipment is at the shop on White Bear Avenue during the winter except for the
couple times there would be some hauling.
Commissioner Rossbach thought there should be additional work on the site plan before this
item goes to the city council. He said the screening should be planted at the edge of the buffer
area not within it.
Commissioner Rossbach moved the Planning Commission recommend adopt the resolution
which approving a conditional use permit for the outdoor storage of landscape materials and
related equipment and vehicles behind 2599 White Bear Avenue. Approval is based on the
findings required by the code and subject to:
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1. Compliance with the site plan date-stamped October 28, 1999 with the following changes
(the director of community development may approve minor changes):
The applicant shall move all equipment, vehicles and materials at least 100 feet north of
the midpoint of the creek-slope south of his site. There shall also be no mowing,
dumping, filling or cutting within this wetland buffer.
The applicant shall submit a detailed site/screening plan to the community design review
board for approval unless one is submitted first to the city council at the public hearing
and found acceptable. This plan shall consist of a combination of six-foot-tall, decorative
wood fencing and six-foot-tall evergreen trees or an equivalent screen of all evergreens.
The proposed screening shall provide a visual barrier that is at least 80 percent opaque
as code requires. The screening shall be installed on the north, south and east sides of
the storage yard and shall also provide screening for the two home owners west of the
Regal Car Wash.
2. The city council shall review this permit in one year.
3. The applicant shall also keep all parts of this storage yard on the BC-zoned portions of his
property.
There shall be no noise-making, business activity conducted in the storage yard, or made by
vehicles entering or leaving the storage yard, between 7 p.m. and 7 a.m. Monday through
Saturday or all day Sunday as required by code. During snow events, the applicant may
store on the site but must use White Bear Avenue for entering and exiting the site.
5. The applicant shall not store any inoperable vehicles on this site.
6. Any driveways to this site must have rock entrances that are at least 50 feet long.
Commissioner Frost seconded.
Ayes--Fischer, Rossbach, Pearson, Frost,
Ledvina, Trippler, Mueller
Nays--Thompson
The motion passed.
Chairperson Fischer then returned the discussion to Agenda Item V. a. 1999 Comprehensive Plan Update.
The commission then continued with review and comments on the comprehensive plan update.
They asked for changes to the bike and trails map on page 128, adding the HRA to promoting
transit use on page 130, and changing the W (water) designation on the neighborhood land use
maps to G (Government). Commissioner Trippler also asked staff to check the statistics on pages
15 and 16 for consistency, to change "inner-ring suburbs" on page 14 to Ramsey County and to add
a note about acreage to Table 3 on page 23.
Commissioner Frost moved the Planning Commission recommend approval of the 1999 Maplewood
Comprehensive Plan update with revisions requested by the commission.
Commissioner Rossbach seconded.
Ayes--all
The motion passed.
Planning Commission
Minutes of 12-06-99
vii. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
There were no visitor presentations.
VIII. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS
A.
B.
C.
D.
IX. STAFF PRESENTATIONS
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November 8 Council Meeting: Mr. Pearson reported on this meeting.
November 22 Council Meeting: Mr. Frost reported on this meeting.
December 13 Council Meeting: Mr. Rossbach will attend this meeting.
December 27 Council Meeting: Mr. Trippler will attend this meeting.
A. White Bear Avenue Corridor Study Update: Ms. Coleman reported on this.
B. Reminder that Commission Reception is Tuesday, December 14, 1999, from 5 to 8 p.m.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m.