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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/20/1999MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION Monday, September 20, 1999, 7:00 PM City Hall Council Chambers 1830 County Road B East 1. Call to Order 2. Roll Call 3. Approval of Minutes a. August 16, 1999 4. Approval of Agenda New Business a. Kline Volvo Automobile Dealership (Highway 61) (1) Wetland Setback Variance (2) Conditional Use Permit 6. Visitor Presentations 7. Commission Presentations a. August 23 Council Meeting: Mr. Mueller b. September 13 Council Meeting: Mr. Roberts c. September 27 Council Meeting: Mr. Thompson d. October 11 Council Meeting: Mr. Rossbach 8. Staff Presentations a. White Bear Avenue Corridor Study Update 9. Adjournment MINUTES OF THE MAPLEWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION 1830 COUNTY ROAD B EAST, MAPLEWOOD, MINNESOTA SEPTEMBER 20, 1999 I. CALL TO ORDER Vice-Chairperson Frost called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Commissioner Lorraine Fischer Commissioner Jack Frost Commissioner Matt Ledvina Commissioner Paul Mueller Commissioner Gary Pearson Commissioner William Rossbach Commissioner Michael Seeber Commissioner Milo Thompson Comm~ss,oner Dale Trippler Present--arrived at 7:14 p.m. Present Present Present-arrived at 7:18 p.m. and left at 8:18 p.m. Absent Present Present Present Present III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. August16,1999. Commissioner moved approval of the minutes of August 16, 1999, amended to have paragraph three of V. C. read, "Commissioner Trippler wondered... "and paragraph eight of V. C. read, "the city council to direct the city staff to install... Commissioner seconded. Ayes--Frost, Ledvina, Seeber, Thompson Trippler Abstain--Rossbach The motion passed. IV. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Commissioner Rossbach moved approval of the agenda as submitted. Commissioner Ledvina seconded. AyesmFrost, Ledvina, Rossbach, Seeber, Thompson, Trippler The motion passed. Planning Commission Minutes of 09-20-99 -2- NEW A. BUSINESS Kline Volvo Automobile Dealership (Highway 61): Wetland Setback Variance and Conditional Use Permit Ken Roberts, associate planner, distributed revised plans that were received by the city on the afternoon of September 20, 1999. Mr. Roberts then presented the staff report. In response to a question about unloading vehicle transports, Mr. Roberts said that staff did not want to make this too restrictive and suggested that the condition could be changed to state that unloading vehicle transports on public property would be prohibited. Commissioner Rossbach inquired about the previous setback variance approvals. These were listed in the staff report and Mr. Roberts reviewed them. Commissioner Frost asked about an agreement to put in rain filters on the catch basins to treat the water before it went into the wetland. Mr. Roberts said the applicant was proposing an underground "holding system." Ken Haider, city engineer, said that this type of filter has not been used in the city because it significantly restricts the flow. Commissioner Pearson asked Mr. Haider to go over the drainage pattern and how the applicant plans to collect the run-off from the site. Mr. Haider said the applicant has a couple of catch basins and pipes, one system on the north side of the building and one on the south side of the building, that takes all the parking lot drainage, except the driveway going out to Highway 61, collects it into a pipe system and discharges it to an underground sedimentation storage system. This storage system is a series of 42" diameter perforated pipes that are buried in a filter aggregate that is surrounded by a filter fabric. The water from the catch basins is directed into these pipes and has a chance to settle out sediment in there and it also stimulates infiltration into the ground. If it rains extremely hard and fills up all those 42" pipes, there is a discharge structure at the end. The water goes through this structure and is then discharged to the wetland owned by RamseyNVashington Metro Watershed District. Commissioner Pearson asked Mr. Haider how deep the pipes would be placed. Mr. Haider said the bottom of the pipes are at 865¼. The pipes are 3¼ feet high which brings it up to about an 872 and the lowest parking lot elevation is about an 875. There is about three feet of material on top of these pipes at the shallowest section and then the parking lot goes up but all the pipes are laid perfectly level. Commissioner Pearson asked how they planned to get the pipes in the groundwater and if they are down in the groundwater already, how much infiltration do we expect to get. Mr. Haider said that the contours that are shown on the site plan go down to an 872. Mr. Haider said he was assuming that the applicant put together a proposal that has the bottom of the pipes above the water level in the wetland. Mr. Haider said this was reviewed by the Watershed District and they have taken action on it already. Commissioner Pearson said that they marked 866.8 on the site plan as the edge of the water. Mr. Haider said the Watershed District has installed outlet pipes there, it is controlled, and that is the elevation that they've set so there would be two feet of difference in the bottom of the pipes in the sedimentation system and the normal level for the pond during normal times. Commissioner Ledvina said he was out at the site and that the culvert on the east side of the site has inverts at 865.1 and that there was about six inches of water flowing in the culvert. Mr. Haider said that the bottom of the treatment system pipes was at 868.5 so that would mean there is almost a 3¼ foot difference. Planning Commission Minutes of 09-20-99 -3- Commissioner Ledvina asked how the pipes were cleaned out once they get full. Mr. Haider said he doubted they would ever get full but that they do need to get cleaned out on occasion. These pipes are flushed out with a jetting machine with a high pressure nozzle that washes the side of the pipe and pulls back any material that is in there and then a vacuum is used to suck out the material that is collected. Jack Grotkin, of R. J. Ryan Construction, and Jeff Stearns, General Manager of Kline Volvo, were present for the applicant. Commissioner Rossbach asked if the applicant could explain why the current Kline dealership on Highway 61 can't manage to keep their vehicles parked in the parking lots instead of on the grass. Commissioner Rossbach said that last Thursday there were over 50 vehicles that he counted. Mr. Stearns said that they were stretched for room right now. Commissioner Rossbach said that on a regular basis Kline unloads a number of vehicles on the little driveway which is actually the church parking lot access. He said he was a little hesitant to grant someone a 25-foot setback to a Class 1 wetland who can't even manage an area that is less sensitive to park their vehicles on the parking lot and it seemed to him from what he knows of the auto business that they always have the option of selling off their inventory in auctions so that they don't need to keep way more cars than fit on their lot. Commissioner Rossbach also said that the applicant was also proposing to have parking in aisle ways that are substandard on the back end of the building, which would be the east side, and on the north the applicant is going to stack cars that they can't possibly get to. Commissioner Trippler asked how many new cars the applicant had on their lot on an average week. Mr. Stearns said generally there were about 66 cars and sometimes as many as 100. Commissioner Carlson asked the applicant how many new Volvos they carry at a time. The applicant said that right now they have 46. Commissioner Trippler asked how many cars they usually received in a shipment. Mr. Stearns said they can take anywhere from 10 to 20 cars. Commissioner Trippler asked how Iow their stock of cars would get before they ask for a shipment. Mr. Stearns said it could be as few as 30 and as many as 60. Commissioner Trippler asked what their used car inventory generally ran. Mr. Stearns said there were usually 40 to 45 used cars. Commissioner Trippler said he didn't understand why they would be moving into an area that provides less parking than what they already have. Mr. Stearns said their thinking was that the new location would spread out their business, giving them more room. Mr. Grotkin said they have built quite a few car dealerships and some have two car showrooms with very few cars on the lot. These dealers store their cars on another cheaper piece of property because real estate is becoming so expensive on the main thoroughfares. Commissioner Seeber asked if the used cars in back of the dealership are all Volvos. Mr. Stearns said they were whatever trade-in cars and, therefore, not all Volvos. Commissioner Rossbach asked what a state-of-the-art dealership is as was mentioned in the letter from Ryan Construction. Mr. Grotkin said all of the upgrades, such as the exterior with EIFS and the service area would be all computerized, and fire sprinklers would be to current codes. Commissioner Thompson said that because of the limited traffic movement area or aisle, it has been recommended for one way traffic. Planning Commission Minutes of 09-20-99 -4- Commissioner Thompson said that if there is a one way as shown there seems to be a point of no return. Mr. Grotkin pointed out on the plan how the one way traffic would work. Commissioner Trippler said the applicant wanted people to come in the front of the building and he wanted to know what the applicant considered the front, the north or the west. Mr. Grotkin said that would be the west, which would be facing the highway. Mr. Grotkin said that when a customer drives in they would park their car for valet service and then their car would be driven someplace else. Commissioner Trippler said that on the north corner of the new display there is 34 stalls for used cars and he wanted to know how customers were going to look at the used cars, how would they get to it. Mr. Grotkin said they would get it for the customer. Commissioner Trippler asked how the customer would even know what it looks like when there is hardly enough room to walk to cars much less get out to take a look at what's there. There was further discussion about the proposed parking variance. Commissioner Seeber said that there was a letter submitted dated August 19, 1999, and item No. 4 in that letter says the use would not involve any activity, processed materials, equipment or methods of operation that would be detrimental to water and air pollution, and it addresses drainage water runoff. He said he was curious if there has been any consideration given to the runoff from this parking lot, given that there is oil, antifreeze and other materials from cars. Mr. Stearns said that was what the storage was for underground with an oil and grease separator in it. Commissioner Ledvina had some concerns about the wetland delineation, when it was done and the accuracy of it. He said he noted on the north side of the site that there are areas delineated wetland with an elevation of 877 and there are areas outside of the wetland with an elevation of 872, and he feels that elevation is a good indication of the wetland in terms of water levels, etc. He wanted to know who did the wetland delineation because he was concerned about the accuracy and he was concerned that there was a portion of the site in the northeast corner that is not delineated as wetland, given the elevations he has seen. Mr. Roberts said that about five years ago the Watershed District platted all of this property, starting with Parcel A, Parcel B, Parcel C, Parcel D and Parcel E, and the reason that D and C are the shape they are was because they set that property line on the edge of the wetland as they determined at that time. They wanted to buy as much of the wetland as they could and they left Parcel A, Parcel C and Parcel D as buildable sites and then buying Parcel B and Parcel E for their use for Watershed District purposes. Mr. Roberts said staff felt that if the Watershed District was comfortable with the wetland boundary, then so were they. Commissioner Rossbach commented that he was not enthusiastic about the proposal. He said he was disappointed in the Watershed District in that lately they seem to approve whatever it is that is offered up on a plan. He said he was concerned that there was no way of monitoring the pipe system to see that it was flushed and cleaned. He sees the pipes getting buried in the ground and nobody ever thinking about them again and that scares him because the city is giving up a 100-foot easement down to 25 with the thought that we are going to be protected by a system that nobody would be maintaining. He further feels that with this particular proposal Kiine has demonstrated an inability to function under the conditional use permit that they currently have for their existing facilities. Mr. Rossbach felt that because the applicant had not been responsive to the city's request that they park only on their pavement they would not be a very good candidate to entrust with not polluting the watershed, not dumping garbage over the edge, etc. Mr. Rossbach thought the plan was a poor one. Planning Commission Minutes of 09-20-99 -5- Commissioner Ledvina, speaking specifically about the variance request, said there was 720 feet of the property line that is involved in this 75-foot alteration of the code and he feels we've already given up a large amount of buffer in variances granted to other adjacent properties. Commissioner Trippler said that, in looking at the new plans, the only way he can see that the applicant can come up with 88 parking spaces was if they double count them. He did not feel that the plan meets the requirement for parking spaces. Mr. Trippler was also concerned about granting yet another 75-foot variance on wetland. Chairperson Fischer asked staff to address, with the revised plan, the concern about whether there was adequate workable space on this site for unloading. Staff said they did not feel there was. Chairperson Fischer asked how aggressive was the monitoring of these types of conditional use permits. Ms. Coleman said that staff receives the most phone calls about Kline and the fact that they park a lot on the grassy area in the front. Typically when staff receives a call like this they call Kline and it corrects itself for awhile and eventually we're back to where we are. Ms. Coleman said they have not seen this as a priority issue where they would haul the applicant back before the city council because the calls have not been that frequent. Ms. Coleman said priorities would have to be reevaluated on how we spend our staff resources in enforcing conditions. If this becomes a policy issue starting at the planning commission or the council, staff would step up the enforcement and look at the conditional use permit. Ms. Coleman thought that this would be a difficult reason to revoke a conditional use permit or shut down a business and would be tough to do in court. Ms. Coleman suggested that an alternative might be to give staff the ability to go out one day and write a $15 or $20 ticket for every car that was parked on the grass which would probably stop that kind of activity. Ms. Coleman said staff needed input from the policy makers on whether this was something staff resources should be spent on. Commissioner Ledvina moved the Planning Commission recommend denial of the 75-foot wetland buffer variance for the proposed Volvo dealership north of 3000 N. Highway 61. The recommendation for denial is based on the following: 1. Inaccurate delineation of the wetland boundary. 2. The perceived difficulty in the implementation of the proposed surface water treatment system to protect the wetland. Commissioner Mueller seconded. Commissioner Rossbach said he had another finding. He had down that the variance would not be in keeping with the intent of the ordinance. He said it seems the area given up by the variance is disproportionate with the 25-foot band of restored wetland. Ayes--Frost, Ledvina, Mueller, Rossbach, Seeber, Thompson, Trippler Abstain--Fischer The motion passed. Planning Commission Minutes of 09-20-99 -6- Commissioner Trippler moved the Planning Commission recommend denial of the conditional use permit for a maintenance garage at the proposed Volvo dealership north of 3000 N. Highway 61 because without the variance the site plan would be unworkable. Commissioner Seeber seconded. Ayes--all The motion passed. VI. VISITOR PRESENTATION There were no visitor presentations. VII. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS B. C. D. August 23 Council Meeting: Ms. Coleman reported on this meeting. September 13 Council Meeting: Mr. Roberts reported on this meeting. September 27 Council Meeting: Mr. Thompson is scheduled to attend this meeting. October 11 Council Meeting: Mr. Rossbach is scheduled to attend this meeting. VIII. STAFF PRESENTATIONS A. White Bear Avenue Corridor Study Update: Ms. Coleman reported on this item. There will be an Open House on October 12, 1999, from 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. The exact location has not been determined yet. IX. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 8:36 p.m.