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Home My WebLink About10/19/1971 Special Business Meeting Special Business Meeting - MHRC - 10/19/71 "Gervais Matter" Present: Cleveland Ray , Kirsten Wold , Janet Grant , Janet Kampf , Jim Bransford , Father Paul , Maria Larsen (Mr . Ray chaired) Guests : Mike Miller , Bailey Seida , Don Ashworth , Ray Hite , Bill Merritt from the Village Staff Also: Bob Collier , John Bergford , Highway Dept & Clarence Harris What is highway department ' s thinking? Plans have evolved over the years thru cooperation of Village ; strict compliance with everything that has come from Village Council . Maplewood , North St . Paul and Oakdale all were asked for appropriate commentaries . Trying to get schedule for 61 to McKnight road to go in April of 74 ; portion McKnight to 694 in October of 75 . Homart shopping center determining traffic pattern . Delay has taken place in comments from Maplewood . Others have been received . From 61 to McKnight best could possibly do would be January of 75 . Still intend to hold that portion of McKnight into 694 to October of 1975 . 36W of 61 is four lane - 2 lanes each way--six lanes east of 61 . Is there capacity need? A . from 61 all way to 280 if they could . G. A. proposal is necessary because of the upgrading of hiway 36 E of 61 . Both of these studies are inter-related . As the highway upgrades to six lane expressway , then G .A . is necessary as a service road . Hazelwood also . Eliminate frequent crossways all the way up to 694 . Is so much industry being anticipated for area that we should have such ambitious plans ? A. No , but there is prophesy of traffic use to 1995 which warrents the change . Is 694 running to capacity? A . Yes ! Is shopping center a reality at this poin t? A . To best of staffs knowledge , yes . No contracts or performance bonds but lien against property in anticipation of the shopping center ; also , statement of intent . If shopping center does not go in , would it still be necessary to upgrade 36 to same level ? Could you get by with overall underpass ? A . No ! Must have local access of freeway into community . A clover leaf at 61 and 36 does not provide local access into community . Would highway dept turn down " English St . " as opposed to "Hazelwood" ? A . They will listen to and study whatever plan we might propose . Would they " favor" Hazelwood over English? They will stick with metro guide ; Hazelwood would satisfy the guide better than English primarilly because of the ramp . Hazelwood interchange is better spacing . -more- 2-Special Meeting 10/ 19/71 If Highway dept has the final authority in determining where inter- changes are going to be , can the Village say that they do not want highway widened between 61 and White Bear Avenue ? A. Yes , but a gross mistake . Residences in the area would suffer . Statement by Highway Dept: The roadway would NOT be widened to obtain extra lanes -- this is misconception . Stay within the confines they now own . They are actually depressing profile of roadway in order to get under English about ten feet . Hazelwood lower than that . If you can depress highway 15 feet above the natural ground then you would lower decibels , better than you have today . Their traffic projections based on zoning , total land use of area . Where do you get land use pattern? A . Communities . Metro Council is also developing land use plan . State Highway Dept has contacted various agencies within village regarding existing zoning , existing land use , building statistics and trends in the given area of community and opinion from the administrative office as to what appears to be happening in the area . They have not appeared formally before Plan- ning Commission or Council . Also , relied on metro council , general analysis of traffic , as opposed to individual stretches . If you grade highway 36 to six lane freeway and depress at 32 feet it would mean taking some additional land in order to get necessary sloping . Piece of Viking Drive would possibly come off Gervais . You indicated need for that within confines of present land use . Gervais study with interchange at Hazelwood , then does get into Viking Drive and beyond which in turn means it would get into housing at Viking Village . A . All construction would be within the right of way . Would be better than it is today . Viking Drive noise factor would be much reduced among other things . Interchange at White Bear and the present bridge will remain the same . This is about 12 feet above grade level . Is County Road C to be upgraded? A . Not necessarilly . Why not County Road C to 61 or the other way? A. Need for " corridor " . Why is G . A. needed as a service road except that 11th Avenue is there? If interchange at English how are you going to get along Gervais to any of the houses or commercial establishments ? People will still try to get thru . Highway 36 is not a " local " street . Among alternatives of highway 36 is right of local community to have acess to it . Atlantic will be closed . English and Hazelwood could be closed . To get off would be White Bear Avenue . White Bear Avenue is proposing 46 , 000 trips a day . Highway Dept is proposing only a diamond interchange . When you come of off 36 you are going to have 46 , 000 trips to contend with . The interchange will not handle additional trips . -more- 3-Special Meeting 10/19/ 71 Let ' s assume G . A . does not get built all the way thru-- would hiway dept build interchange at English St? A . Economics might not justify cost of expenditure . Why G .A . study? A . Number of questions raised by residents . Questions raised the study . Number of people requested this . 11th Avenue happened about that time also . Must bring these matters to a head . Comment: G . A. residents are willing to live and glad to live with the inconvenience of going to County Road C to get off . They are even more willing and totally disposed in continuing that inconvenience . What provision has village made for the right of residents to put up with these inconveniences ? A . The people along G . A . for some years have been told that street would have to be improved-- -for at least one- half length of G . east of tracks . From Germain to Kennard going E . for industrial area at least between 36 and G .A . You can imagine industrial traffic on G .A . as it exists today ! Lots of business activity developing ; even NW Bell thinking of bringing in a regional center. How far W . ? Germain is easterly limits of industrial zoning . Someone has to study feasibility of these things . Road from Kennard E . is going to attract vehicular activity on it that will warrant more improved road than is there today . Purpose of the study is to find answers ; maybe Village effort is inadequate --staff does not allow that it is or it isn ' t . What engineers have tried to come up with is something that can handle all of the traffic . Do not mess up other roads . Social and engineering aspects . Sometimes it would seem that engineers are heartless when they are just trying to foresee and smooth the way for future needs . If the Village interchange at Hazelwood is proposed and is decided upon , what will the Village ' s thought be as far as the residents are concerned? This is new to members of the village also ! Still exploring methods . Controlling spread of commercial development in area? A. Yes ! To north side of highway 36 . Discussion on zoning of different areas . Statement that the Village is now formulating land use plan . Proposed land plan limited commercial in area east- end of G . A . 0-verpass at Hazelwood . When is comprehensive plan going to be ready? Planning Commission is to make recommendation to Council as quickly as is feasibile . Whatever is done to Hazelwood is going to affect at least two of the schools . G. A. will no longer be residential street . If Hazelwood is changed this will also affect two of the schools . Hazelwood shows less traffic than if interchange is put at English . No traffic indi - cations given to area south of 35 and how affected by interchange at Hazelwood . No question that there would be abbut 700 cars in a 24 hour period more on Hazelwood north on 36 if new interchange at Hazelwood occurs vs 700 cars less on Hazelwood if an interchange is at Hazelwood north of 36 . Special G . A . public meeting will be called for December 9th . C . Harris has set up a special meeting for November 9th to which all Commissions , Village Staff and school administration will be invited . _^n_